Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
- Silly's MB
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Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Today I picked up a nice 1/2" drive universal socket made by Blackhawk. Its the same as AA has with the same -1 date stamp which dates it to 1941.
I also read that Blackhawk and Armstrong are affiliated but I cannot find anything that mentions Blackhawk as a supplier in WW2. Would it be that with the Lock On technology they were deemed too expensive ?
http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifact ... on-p5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I also read that Blackhawk and Armstrong are affiliated but I cannot find anything that mentions Blackhawk as a supplier in WW2. Would it be that with the Lock On technology they were deemed too expensive ?
http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifact ... on-p5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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1942 August Willys MB
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Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
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Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Wingnutt
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Silly,
I am a certifiable Blackhawk junkie...
...who has tried to find some reference to wartime supply, including the Armstrong connection, in much disappointing vain.
(But thanks for the opportunity to show off some of my collection... )
I am a certifiable Blackhawk junkie...
...who has tried to find some reference to wartime supply, including the Armstrong connection, in much disappointing vain.
(But thanks for the opportunity to show off some of my collection... )
TEMPORARY DUTY
- Silly's MB
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Very nice collection Wingnut. I am very new to the name Blackhawk but I will look out for more over here. They seem to be superb quality and very solid.
The only link I have is that I found a 1941 socket in the UK so not much to go on from this side!
The only link I have is that I found a 1941 socket in the UK so not much to go on from this side!
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1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Silly's MB
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
This Blackhawk socket is a bit of a mystery to me. 1941 dated again but I cant make any sense of the numbering system.
I cant seem to find anything similar on AA. I am guessing the W is for Whitworth.
I cant seem to find anything similar on AA. I am guessing the W is for Whitworth.
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1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Hartofoak
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Here are a few more Blackhawk 1/2" drive sockets 'Silly'sMB'. I presume the second figure on my photo is a metric version of an imperial size i.e. 1.010" (~1-1/16"), 1.100 (~1-1/8") & 0.600 (~5/8"). This seems to fit with my across-flats (AF) measurements using a vernier caliper. This suggests that the 'W' is not for Whitworth, or perhaps they were a compramise? These sockets are similar in style to the '401' AF serries, as explained in the 'AA' Blackhawk article and were produced after 1941.
Last edited by Hartofoak on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
MB 298781 DoD: est. 01-19-44 (ex British Army 1958)
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MVMTS toolboxes & tools
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MVMTS toolboxes & tools
- Silly's MB
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Theoretically that sounds like a good idea Hartofoak except that I thought the "1" after the Blackhawk is the year code. Such as the "-1" on the UJ Socket at the start of the post and I also have a marked 3/8" AF which has a "-3" after the Blackhawk. The dash is thought to possibly represent a halfway year marker .
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1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Hartofoak
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
There is no '1' after my Blackhawk .600 example. BTW I've edited my text in my previous posting. Strange that we should both have picked these up here in the UK - a bit like my supposed Whitworth D-I sockets that I've posted about before.
MB 298781 DoD: est. 01-19-44 (ex British Army 1958)
T1 Trailer: "Transportation Equipment Co."
MVMTS toolboxes & tools
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MVMTS toolboxes & tools
- Silly's MB
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
This is all confusing me too much. I am concluding this range is not date stamped then. I have to wonder if it is much later as mine seems to have a chrome finish which I suppose is possible if it was made in 1941 or 42.
I have found this chart "Whitworth/BSF (pre 1940) head sizes and the mm or imperial (inch) equivalent." here
http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/conv ... charts.htm
and it seems to show your AF sizes are out by a bit and are not a direct Decimal inch comparison and shows 1.200 should be a 7/8" AF.
On the other hand the chart shows a 1.200 in decimal is equivalent to 11/16" Whitworth, I just happen to have a DI SW78 11/16" and it measures 31mm across which is the same as 1.200 Blackhawk socket.
So that seems to make me think it is a Whitworth size marked in Decimal.
I have found this chart "Whitworth/BSF (pre 1940) head sizes and the mm or imperial (inch) equivalent." here
http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/conv ... charts.htm
and it seems to show your AF sizes are out by a bit and are not a direct Decimal inch comparison and shows 1.200 should be a 7/8" AF.
On the other hand the chart shows a 1.200 in decimal is equivalent to 11/16" Whitworth, I just happen to have a DI SW78 11/16" and it measures 31mm across which is the same as 1.200 Blackhawk socket.
So that seems to make me think it is a Whitworth size marked in Decimal.
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1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Hartofoak
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Here is a link to my other 'SW' D-I sockets including the SW78. Thanks for the conversion chart and list ... talk about complex! I get the list but find the chart anomalous or am I just thick! Does indeed look like Duro-Indestro & Blackhawk made sockets in British Imperial sizes in the 1940's/wartime period.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=203290#p1194847
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=203290#p1194847
MB 298781 DoD: est. 01-19-44 (ex British Army 1958)
T1 Trailer: "Transportation Equipment Co."
MVMTS toolboxes & tools
T1 Trailer: "Transportation Equipment Co."
MVMTS toolboxes & tools
- Silly's MB
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
I have gone back and looked at the chart again today and notice that is actually 2 charts on the same grid. The 2 columns on the right are just telling you the AF size in metric. The four on the left are the ones we are interested in.
I am not sure SW does stand for Standard Whitworth, It seems to be a fairly standard way of designating a group of sockets. Williams also use SW but mark them with the BSW (British Standard whitworth) size and the equivelant BSF (British standard Fine).
Snap On designated a family of their AF sockets SW. Wright are easier to identify as the sockets are marked with a W code and the size followed by Whit. and a very clear date code.
I am not sure SW does stand for Standard Whitworth, It seems to be a fairly standard way of designating a group of sockets. Williams also use SW but mark them with the BSW (British Standard whitworth) size and the equivelant BSF (British standard Fine).
Snap On designated a family of their AF sockets SW. Wright are easier to identify as the sockets are marked with a W code and the size followed by Whit. and a very clear date code.
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Saddle Tramp
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Are there any more thoughts of Blackhawk making Whitworth sockets?
I've found 4 and 1 has definately got a W on it.
I'll get them cleaned up and take some pix
Tim
I've found 4 and 1 has definately got a W on it.
I'll get them cleaned up and take some pix
Tim
- Hartofoak
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Blackhawk-Armstrong
These are up for auction at present. Supports the Blackhawk-Armstrong link as mention by 'Silly'sMB'. Also see the comprehensive article in 'Alloy Artifacts'.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blackhawk-Arm ... _508wt_958
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blackhawk-Arm ... _508wt_958
MB 298781 DoD: est. 01-19-44 (ex British Army 1958)
T1 Trailer: "Transportation Equipment Co."
MVMTS toolboxes & tools
T1 Trailer: "Transportation Equipment Co."
MVMTS toolboxes & tools
- Silly's MB
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
I picked most of these up at Beaulieu back in September. They all seem to be wartime with date codes of 2 or 3.
The front 2 rows are AF 12 point, the back left 5 are 8 point AF and the rear 3 are whitworth decimal as discussed previously. Also shown is a very nice Drag link bit. Most of these are NOS.
Alloy Artefacts doesn't show any of the 8 point 402*** series that I can see. Hartofoak and I were wondering whether they were destined for the aircraft industry ?
The front 2 rows are AF 12 point, the back left 5 are 8 point AF and the rear 3 are whitworth decimal as discussed previously. Also shown is a very nice Drag link bit. Most of these are NOS.
Alloy Artefacts doesn't show any of the 8 point 402*** series that I can see. Hartofoak and I were wondering whether they were destined for the aircraft industry ?
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1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- Silly's MB
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO
Empty vessels make the most noise .......
- lucakiki
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Re: Blackhawk as ww2 supplier ?
That is what we can call evidence of BLACKHAWK having been a military supplier!
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
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WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
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