TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Manufacturers, configurations, Shovels, Axe, Wrenches, Oiler, F/E etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
lucakiki
G-General
G-General
Posts: 17578
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Torino, ITALY

FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH.

Post by lucakiki » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:34 pm

Chuck Lutz wrote: Joel:
I think you will find that your legit and long established MV collector is/was selling tool kits that were not what they were advertised as....and way back in the day Luca actually bought from him only to learn later they were not the Real McCoy....I don't expect him to 'get over' that anytime soon, and if you would like to contact that seller and discuss him refunding Luca's money perhaps that will help him to "get over it"...

You can claim "Caveat Emptor" all you want, but the MV community is a relatively SMALL world and with that in mind, I think Luca has every RIGHT to mention the Loblolly Lane deal whenever he wants to. If you condone or ignore those kinds of dealings in the MV world, then those kinds of transactions which take place on g503 EVERY DAY are doomed.....in other words, you can screw anyone foolish enough to believe what you tell them because it is their duty to know you are a crook?

I don't THINK so....and I certainly hope the g503 is not going to let that happen....I know of THREE sellers who have been discovered to knowingly have sold something that wasn't what they claimed....North Carolina, Colorado and Texas. I won't go into details, but if you want to search here long enough....the proof is there!
Chuck , for the sake of truth, let me state that you , not on purpose I am sure,made a wrong statement which I need to correct.
I never had any dealing with that Warren gentleman.
The reason I would not even think to purchase from him is that I would rather believe that elephants can fly rather than that a correct tool kit can be sold repeatedly for 125 $.
That is why I think that Pan's suggestion of comparing the guys prices with the figures in our survey is absolutely out of place.
How can a jeep tool kit sell for 125 bucks, when a Prestigious dealer sells the 41-W hub wrench for 65 dollars?
Excepting the above mentioned fact, I do agree on everything else you said.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________


User avatar
Jon
Australian Army (Retired) R.A.E.M.E.
Australian Army (Retired) R.A.E.M.E.
Posts: 11949
Joined: Mon May 04, 1998 8:00 pm
Location: Down Under In Queensland
Contact:

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Jon » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:51 pm

Totally off topic I know, but I did list what I though were reasonable prices for the tools, and that's not to say I paid that price.

The Brake wrench.....it cost me $17.00. Ford of course.
Tyre Chains.......$10 for 4 Ford Weed brand..... yes. $10.00 you read it right.
Jack. 3 at $10.00 each, I gave one to Ron, and one to Frank as you know.and kept one for myself.
Crank Handle. bought it off the Gee here and paid $100.. again. Ford. naturally
Hub Nut socket thingies..... Found a box of Ford ones, at $8.00 each, kept one, one was stolen at the Brisbane Swap, and sold the rest and no. not at $8.00 either.

Yes. there are bargains out there, but that's not the intent of this thread......
I remember talking to John Barton about a B-B 723 I needed, he sold me the set for $100, which I ended up giving to a good mate for his jeep to win top prize at Portland., because in the meantime, I found that elusive B-B 723 by accident.

There are some good stories out there.......

JR
Jon Rogers
AUSTRALIA


http://jeepdraw.com JeepDraw Home Page & Drawings
Parts Colours Page http://jeepdraw.com/PART_COLOURS.htm
1944 GPW195611 20531384 ACM-2 17781
1942 MBT 19433W

User avatar
lucakiki
G-General
G-General
Posts: 17578
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Torino, ITALY

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by lucakiki » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:53 pm

Jon your post is not off topic, in that it confirms what we all know: bargains and "steals" are possible, (no I am not refering to the theft at Brisbane!) but they are an exception.
That is why, for instance, the famous story of your chain purchase is set in the memory of many gee members, almost a fire place tale that still fascinates.
I purchased my first BB 723 from John at incredibly low price, but that was before the prices started to climb.
Quite true that the prices for some tools now went down a bit, and not just because of the economic recession.
The same John Barton, when he wanted to complete a GPW set that was to become a trend setter, had to purchase the Moore 12" at quite an high amount, although under the 100 bucks it had reached on the collector marked. That was before the Bizal kit, from memory.
So, yes we have nice stories, luckily, just like Chuck Lutz who found some nice tool in a bucketful that had already been checked out by other expert pals during the same hunting tour.
For this thread, however, these nice stories can only be remembered as sweeteners,with no effect on the expectations of the average guy needing to purchase a given tool reasonably fast.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________

User avatar
The Raven
G-Lieutenant Colonel
G-Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 1167
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:00 am
Location: Nunya

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by The Raven » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:25 am

Ok I get it, It seems that due to the lack of collectors in my area, supply and demand are in my favor. When I look at the global scene I get sticker shock. An example is the alemite push grease gun that I have been looking at for $2 for months. No Fairmounts, but many barclos and vlckeks.

I guess I should start a buying service to give myself a job as i'm currently underemployed. :mrgreen:
The Law of Unintended Consequences has come into play. All the best..-A

User avatar
lucakiki
G-General
G-General
Posts: 17578
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Torino, ITALY

Re: TOOL PRICES: the wheat from the chaff.

Post by lucakiki » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:59 am

The Raven wrote:Ok I get it, It seems that due to the lack of collectors in my area, supply and demand are in my favor. When I look at the global scene I get sticker shock. An example is the alemite push grease gun that I have been looking at for $2 for months. No Fairmounts, but many barclos and vlckeks.

I guess I should start a buying service to give myself a job as i'm currently underemployed. :mrgreen:
Why don't you use the proper spelling, for a starter? Barcalo,Vlchek, no extra cost involved. :idea:
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________

User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Wingnutt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:14 am

The Raven wrote:Ok I get it, It seems that due to the lack of collectors in my area, supply and demand are in my favor.
I won’t speak for the rest of the world, but there is no region of the US where G503 collectors are crawling all over themselves. Everyone has a pretty good shot at some of the more common tools at pawn shops, junk shops, flea markets, yard sales, garage sales, and such.
The Raven wrote:When I look at the global scene I get sticker shock.
It’s not a function of a regional or a global value. It’s a function of knowledge, or lack thereof, about collectibles, in this case, WWII era tools. Knowledge is power. Wherever there is common knowledge between a seller and a buyer on the value of a collectible, it will be exchanged at or near that value, give or take a percentage point or two above or below, depending on the desire and willingness of both the seller and the buyer to vary from that figure to complete the transaction.

As we have been saying, over and over again, that’s why the prices for WWII collectible equipment, gear, and tools are at or near value here on G503. It's also why they're at or near value at a swap meet, at US militaria stores, from major dealers such as Charles Snyder (Snyder’s Treasures), Wayne Thomas (Armies of the Past) and the aforementioned Hayes Otoupalik, as well as on ePay, where all the same kinds of buyers and sellers meet, virtually, on an item by item basis. These are all examples of informed collectibles markets.

Just because a Vlchek Alloy 723 is sitting in the bottom of a “$1 EACH” box on the porch of a country hardware store doesn’t mean it’s worth $1. It means the owner, at the very least, doesn’t know it could be worth as much as $100. In some cases, he may suspect that it’s worth more but doesn’t find it worth it or is too lazy to do the research and the legwork to sell it to someone who would know its true value as a collectible, which would imply ePay, or establishing a website, or finding a middleman, etc.

If you’re not aware, American mid-century hand tools have a value beyond G503. There are A LOT of ‘wrenchers’ (guys collecting old tools for collecting or resale) out there, and A LOT of wrencher sites (see Garage Journal), and antiques “picking” (and re-selling) in general is a very popular hobby (see TV shows such as “Pawn Stars”, “American Pickers”, etc).

And there are guys like this guy (http://vimeo.com/31575162), in Liberty, Maine, who restores and re-sells mid-century American made hand tools for use. Not at collectible prices. But not at junk shop prices either.
TEMPORARY DUTY

User avatar
lucakiki
G-General
G-General
Posts: 17578
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Torino, ITALY

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by lucakiki » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:25 am

Jon wrote:Luca,
My old estimates stand........although some wrenches have come down a little.

JR
Jon,just for ease of comparison, I copied and pasted your old estimates.A few posts down in that old thread, you mentioned getting the brake bleeder wrench from India, at some 35 dollars,via Al Brass,and that was in 2005!
So much for the 8 bucks listed in Victoria's secret list.

Here it is, mate! After all, my present " survey" is openly meant to be a continuation of thad old thread Frank had started in those long gone days!

by Jon » Sun May 22, 2005 7:59 pm

Jack................................. ................US$100 - $150
L/N Wrench for jack.......... ................US$25.00 (Ford Marked naturally)
Hub Nut Wrench............... ................US$50 (Ditto)
Set of Williams Wrenches -................ US$300 - US$400
11" Adjustable ................. ................US$25 - US$35
Tyre Gauge ..................................... US$25 - $50
Fluted G/B Wrench............................ US$5.00
Williams Hammer...............................US$30 -US$40
Spark Plug Wrench ............................US$25.00
Oil Can EAGLE, or Gem.......................US$25.00
Irwin Screwdriver...............................US$30.00
F Marked Hub Puller............................US$70.00
Pliers 6".............................................US$10 -US$20
Square Tool Thingie for the diffs..........US$20.00
Grease Gun..LEVER TYPE for a '45......US$70 - US$85

To make this survey even more complete, I will try to recover a more recent list, that had been thrown in the wastebasket. The author's name is not readable anymore, but who cares: it is the concepts that count!
Last edited by lucakiki on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:26 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Joel:
I think you will find that your legit and long established MV collector is/was selling tool kits that were not what they were advertised as....and way back in the day Luca actually bought from him only to learn later they were not the Real McCoy....I don't expect him to 'get over' that anytime soon, and if you would like to contact that seller and discuss him refunding Luca's money perhaps that will help him to "get over it"...

You can claim "Caveat Emptor" all you want, but the MV community is a relatively SMALL world and with that in mind, I think Luca has every RIGHT to mention the Loblolly Lane deal whenever he wants to. If you condone or ignore those kinds of dealings in the MV world, then those kinds of transactions which take place on g503 EVERY DAY are doomed.....in other words, you can screw anyone foolish enough to believe what you tell them because it is their duty to know you are a crook?
_____________________________________________________

Now Chuck, we mustn't be too hasty and jump to conclusions, Luca did not buy from this gentleman. It is unfair to to badmouth a fellow collector with unfounded allegations.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Wingnutt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:39 am

The Raven wrote: An example is the alemite push grease gun that I have been looking at for $2 for months.
If it’s correct, you should buy it. If you don’t need it, trade it or sell it. Someone here who still needs an Alemite push-type GG might buy it. Then you can put your margin in the piggy bank for the tool you can’t seem to find in your neck of the Maine woods when it just happens to show up right here in a For Sale ad.
The Raven wrote:I guess I should start a buying service to give myself a job as i'm currently underemployed.
I don’t think anyone here is making a living selling G503 tools, but it’s nice to be in the black from time to time.
The Raven wrote:No Fairmounts, but many barclos and vlckeks.
There's nothing unusual about this. I see far more of every other mid-century brand than Fairmount. Their production was miniscule in comparison, and I find the northeast states especially loaded with Barcalo, Vlchek, Bonney, Utica, and B&S.
Last edited by Wingnutt on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
TEMPORARY DUTY

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:08 am

Wingnut, it is not nice to be in the "Red", you must be a Gov't employee. :wink:
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
lucakiki
G-General
G-General
Posts: 17578
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Torino, ITALY

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey and comparisons.

Post by lucakiki » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:14 am

]
Ben Dover wrote:Have you compared your tool prices with those of William Warren? William Warren is an established MV tool dealer who has advertised in Supply Line for over 30 years.
So, what is there to compare?
He has been advertising jeep tool kits in the bag for years, and his prices might be very useful for this tentative survey,if the tools he sells are original WWII .
Since you recommended the comparison,I am asking you :are they tools comparable with those which are the object of this thread?
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________

User avatar
Wingnutt
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm
Location:

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Wingnutt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:19 am

Ben Dover wrote:Wingnut, it is not nice to be in the "Red", you must be a Gov't employee. :wink:
LOL. (Thanks. Edited.)
TEMPORARY DUTY

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:20 am

That's better. :wink:
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:57 pm

What is the model number and condition of the $2 push-type grease gun....got a pic or two?

Two words from the MVPA Judging Standards I remember reading come to mind....CONDITION and ORIGINALITY.
Both those would determine much about that $2 grease gun though....

That goes for all the tools in the jeep kits...be they Factory tool kits or Motorpool tool kits...as they say, "Knowledge is Power" and the more you can learn about Condition and Originality for the tool kits, the better informed you will be to judge a REALISTIC price for them. There may be a world of difference between a $2.00 grease gun and a $25.00 grease gun for instance. One may be OK for a Factory kit, one may not be OK for even a Motorpool kit.

No one here seems interested in buying the WRONG grease gun for $2.00 because they felt the CORRECT one for $25.00 was preferable due to a preconcieved notion that they are a dime a dozen or that the $2.00 price for the WRONG one is relevant to the price the CORRECT one should go for.

Look at Jon's list from 2005 that Luca posted.....I sure would like to stumble over a FORD lug wrench for $25.00!

BUT....If I ever want to actually buy one, I need to keep a REALISTIC price in mind for it...sure, the $25.00 figure would satisfy me in a New York minute, but I have a much higher price in mind that I think I will have to fork over for one....

...that is unless I can swap some of the "extra" tools I have to someone who needs them.....trades being a wonderful thing for two guys who do happen to have purchased an item the other wants for a few dollars and are willing to swap for an item they REALISTICALLY believe is worth over a hundred bucks!

Oh, and keep an eye peeled for a Hub Puller with an "F" on it....whereas Jon priced one in 2005 for $70.00 I think the last few that changed hands I am aware of went for several hundred...

Read wingnutt's post ....his comments are something I can totally agree with!

I think an informed person who wishes to amass a correct (to me, that would be Factory, not motorpool) needs to have REALISTIC prices in mind or the competition will grab them and he will be waiting the eight years or more for ALL his tools rather than the eight years I have been looking for a FORD lug wrench! Sure, buy the ones cheaply that are correct and the condition is OK on, and then when you have to pony up top dollar for the rare ones, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you STILL put together a good kit and saved a few bucks due to your good buys that offset the one you had to pay more for.

PS....unless the Jeep Gods smile on me and I trip over a set of chains for my jeep....I won't be able to afford to buy one set, let alone two. Oh, I could get lucky, but collecting shouldn't be based on LUCK alone...that is if you want to get that kit together before the year 2020 or something!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

User avatar
lucakiki
G-General
G-General
Posts: 17578
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Torino, ITALY

TOOL PRICES:a tentative survey

Post by lucakiki » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:38 am

OK guys, from what I read elsewhere,maybe we can now re-focus on the original thread and on its purpose.
Some guy might not deem this survey as representative enough, and on that concept I only have two comments:
One, it is his privilege.
Two, I do not give a rat's.

So I am looking forward to further new useful contributions, avoiding useless sidetracking or personal stories about ownership mixed up with name dropping and self promotions, since they are repeatedly deprived of the figures that are a must for this survey.

One prestigious expert said , more than once, that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and that the early bird , usually but not always, gets the worm.Let me add that a bird out of a thread may be priceless.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________


Post Reply

Return to “G503 Tools & Equipment (Vehicle & Pioneer)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Thomas Jacobson and 44 guests