What about 3/8" drive tools?

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Wingnutt
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by Wingnutt » Fri May 18, 2018 6:32 am

mrbill wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:10 am
..we have physical evidence that 3/8" drive tools were used by the Air Corps/AAF (Snap-on, Plomb, Wright)
We have physical evidence and documentation that 3/8" square drive tools were also used by the US Army Ordnance Dept, Bill.

The March 1945 ORD 5 SNL J-4 lists 3/8-inch drive pieces (bars, handles, sockets, deep sockets, swivel sockets, and universal joints) individually. Most of the spec citations are TAC ES No. 702a. But some of them are Snap-on F (for Ferret) model codes.

It also lists three 3/8-inch square drive sets.

One of those sets is 41-W-2616, a 13-pc set with a rat, hinge handle, extensions, uni joint and eight (8) sockets. If that FSN sounds familiar, remember that 41-W-2615 is our precious GMTK (MVM/GM TS) midget set. It has a TAC ES No. 702a in the spec column.

The second set is 41-W-2616-20, a 20-pc set with the standard 13-pc complement of pieces, plus a DLB, a speeder, a sliding tee, and a few crows feet. It has a BFT-TD-12 citation in the spec column, which is the code for a Bonney TD-12 set. I'm pretty sure that's the same or similar 3/8-inch drive set that's in the back of the multiple drive size Bonney Master Mechanics Kit in back of the Dodge WC41 Emergency Repair Truck, listed in SNL G-61, which is early, and doesn’t include any FSNs. Dave (daveus6) would know better.

The third set is inside the 100-piece Blackhawk Master Set (41-W-2613-500, BKM-100W), which went in a big wrecker, at the very least. Those are shown in itemized form in the various sources (1944 TM 9-767, 1939 Shadbolt 7 Boyd catalog, March 1945 ORD 5 SNL J-4) that I included in the Blackhawk Master Set, linked here.
Silly's MB wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:24 am
...but the majority of these are marked with the Canadian acceptance mark.
Please post a close-up of what this mark looks like, Roger. And please check your PM.
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by d42jeep » Fri May 18, 2018 7:26 am

Wingnutt’s mention of Snap-on Ferret tools reminded me that I haven’t yet posted pictures of my recently completed 3/8” drive wartime set. The 1942 u-joint was the missing piece.
-Don
Attachments
4B5D3637-0CF4-412B-AD23-8EA801BA18E3.jpeg
Snap-on catalog image
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2F5900AC-7B21-4E76-AE34-792BEBE41ACE.jpeg
Snap-on 3/8” drive Ferret set
2F5900AC-7B21-4E76-AE34-792BEBE41ACE.jpeg (105.65 KiB) Viewed 3979 times
3304D9E8-9148-4309-8D5E-3830F748BDFC.jpeg
1942 Snap-on u-joint
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Last edited by d42jeep on Sat May 19, 2018 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by Wingnutt » Fri May 18, 2018 9:34 am

That's a nice-looking set in that box the way they lay everything out so separated and un-cluttered like that.

I ran into some misc. orphan 3/8-inch drive pieces this morning, incl Snap-on, Thorsen, Walden, and - believe it or not, Blackhawk. Posted a pic in my flea thread, here.
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by mrbill » Fri May 18, 2018 9:55 am

I like it when Wingnutt gets rained out at the flea market, he does more interesting research! :D Much appreciated, sir!

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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by gpw_42 » Fri May 18, 2018 2:19 pm

Picked up this SnapOn G-code F-160 1/2" socket today at the same pawn shop where I found the Bristol key a month or so ago.
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by d42jeep » Sat May 19, 2018 3:48 am

gpw_42 wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:19 pm
Picked up this SnapOn G-code F-160 1/2" socket today at the same pawn shop where I found the Bristol key a month or so ago.
Congratulations, you now are a Ferret owner. I’m not sure that Snap-on would use that designation for a 3/8” drive set today but I like it! They even stamped it on the exterior of the box.
-Don
Attachments
9FD27866-FF6B-485F-8D7A-0C6020A4CEBF.jpeg
Ferret set exterior
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by Wingnutt » Sat May 19, 2018 5:44 am

d42jeep wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 3:48 am
Congratulations, you now are a Ferret owner. I’m not sure that Snap-on would use that designation for a 3/8” drive set today...
:lol: So true. What were they thinking?

Joe Johnson: 'Say Bill. We need a name for this drive size.'
Bill Seideman: 'Whatever you say, Joe. Got anything in mind?'
Newton Tarble: 'How about something from the dimorphic crepuscular carnivorous mammal group.'
They stand there staring at him blankly.
Newton Tarble: 'Furry slender little critters that slink about at dusk and dawn.'
More blank stares.
Newton Tarble: 'Ya know. Polecats.'
Bill Seideman: 'Aren't those weasels?'
Joe Johnson: 'I'm not sure that's good for marketing.'
Newton Tarble: 'We could go with the ferret instead.'

What I've always found so bizarre about the name is how jarring it is compared to their other drive sizes - Midget (1/4"), Master (3/8"), Heavy Duty (3/4") and Extra Heavy Duty (1") - which all fit the same scheme, having to do with their relative size and function to each other.

All joking aside, "The Snap-On Story", published in 1960, on the edit: 40th anniversary, says the name was picked out because of the slender shanks. Which makes sense. It doesn't explain why they picked an animal, though. Rather than something like "Junior".
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by gpw_42 » Sat May 19, 2018 6:33 am

d42jeep wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 3:48 am
Congratulations, you now are a Ferret owner. I’m not sure that Snap-on would use that designation for a 3/8” drive set today but I like it! They even stamped it on the exterior of the box.
-Don
Thanks! So much simpler than the 4-footed ferret :) No telling how long it'd take to assemble a set at this rate; it'd be nice to swap it for a similar Plvmb.

Steve

Edited to add the Plvmb comment, from being wishy-washy.

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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by Silly's MB » Thu May 24, 2018 1:10 pm

Wingnutt wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:32 am
Silly's MB wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:24 am
...but the majority of these are marked with the Canadian acceptance mark.
Please post a close-up of what this mark looks like, Roger. And please check your PM.
They have not photographed well but the male end has been stamped with a C (arrow inside) and the sockets are engraved the same with an electric pencil.
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by Wingnutt » Thu May 24, 2018 5:08 pm

Thanks! Learned something new!
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by daveus6 » Sun May 27, 2018 4:05 pm

Hi Guys,

I've come in a bit late on this one - I've been out of action for some time.

As for the Bonney 3/8" drive socket set in G-61, it bears a fair relationship to the one in Bonney's standard Master Mechanics Kit from their catalog. The set I have collected is typical wartime plain steel finish (actually almost looks parkerised), but still has the pre-war script (CV) logo - so dating it to sometime after March 1942 when the chrome plating of sockets was dropped but before the ban on using chrome vanadium alloys for tools (Wingnutt has that exact date) - at which point Bonney changed the markings to just plain "BONNEY" with "Made in USA" in plain steel finish.

Interestingly, the 1/2" drive set from the same period had a much more plain "BONNEY" (CV) and "Made in USA". The old "Chrome Vanadium" script logo made it into the early war period as I have at least one 1/2" drive deep socket in totally plain steel finish (not just well worn chrome) with the old style script logo.

Now that I'm a bit more freed up for time, I'm going to get back to photographing the tool kits for the WC-41.

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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by mrbill » Tue May 29, 2018 10:51 am

Wingnutt was kind enough to scan the relevant descriptions of the 41-W-2616 and 41-W-2616-20 sets. I'm including them here for future reference.
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41-W-2616
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20180529_122536_resized.jpg
41-W-2616-20
20180529_122536_resized.jpg (254.44 KiB) Viewed 3837 times
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by mrbill » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:41 am

I was looking at the 1941 Bonney catalog last night. As Wingnutt mentions above, the TD12 set on page 12 must have been the inspiration for the 41-W-2616-20 set. I was comparing to other manufacturers and I believe that Bonney (and maybe Plomb) is the only one to offer all the pieces in the specification.
1941 Bonney Catalog #41.jpg
1941 Bonney Catalog Page 12
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by mrbill » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:56 am

I've been trying to find S-K 3/8" drive pieces that I think could be representative of wartime tools. (It would be a lot easier if they had followed the same design attributes as their 1/4" & 1/2" cousins!) Here are some shots of a 45162 11" extension, a 45153 flex handle, and four sockets (3/4, 11/16, 5/8, and 7/16). All the pieces are S-K diamond stamped and plain steel (the 5/8 socket has a phosphate-like coating) except for the extension which is plain steel with a chromed socket end. Does anyone have photos of a late 30's set for comparison?
IMG_1079.jpg
Overview
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IMG_1070.jpg
45162 Extension markings
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45162 extension socket end
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IMG_1074.jpg
45153 flex handle stamping
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45153 flex handle stamping
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Socket number
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IMG_1077-1.jpg
Socket sizes
IMG_1077-1.jpg (145.72 KiB) Viewed 3802 times
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Re: What about 3/8" drive tools?

Post by d42jeep » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:17 pm

I checked the S-K toolbox at my summer home today and found some wartime looking 3/8” drive tools for Bill’s new wartime 3/8” drive S-K quest. None of the drive tools are marked, similar to what we’ve seen in the 1/4” drive wartime tools.
-Don
Attachments
3AA45052-A03D-4DD1-AF71-2550554F45C2.jpeg
S-K 3/8” drive tools
3AA45052-A03D-4DD1-AF71-2550554F45C2.jpeg (118.3 KiB) Viewed 3782 times
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