trnsmissions ..the END!!
-
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1307
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:56 pm
- Location: new york
- Contact:
trnsmissions ..the END!!
Transmission assembly part 2
The final steps with top end actually go pretty easily.
The books and manuals however, don’t have very clear
drawings..most of them are exploded diagrams- you can’t tell
clearly what goes in where..
I’m going to try and show the rails, springs, forks, etc…in their
relative positions
This picture shows the rails outside..in their relative position.
The 1st/rev is shorter. If you line up the notches for the interlock
plunger facing each other, and the cutouts in rail for shift lever and shift
plate..2nd/3rd is on inside..1st/rev is on top…and notches for poppet
balls on bottom…it starts to be logical.
The small rail is to align the forks…the large fork rides in the channel on the large gear (1st/rev) at back of case..the small fork rides in synchro groove…slide alignment rail through small hole in case, and respective holes in forks.
another picture to show rail arrangement
I push rails in their respective case holes from back…through forks..up to the holes for the springs and poppet balls…spring goes in first on bottom..then poppet ball..
The object is two hold the ball down..while pushing rail over it..
It can be tricky..I tried another shift rail..a drift, etc..
but I wind up just using the flat of a screwdriver..inserted from the front..levering off the top of the hole…and then hitting back end of rail with hammer..
the first few times..it will pop out..fly all over the room..
a third hand covering the hole..or handling the hammer is better..
and..now that the spring and ball are clean..it can fly out pretty fast
safety glasses… or keep it covered!
now you wiggle rail to line up notch on rail..with set crew
hole on fork ..the set screw goes in pretty easily now..
compared to getting them out…
but you do need to line up fork and notch for it to go all the way in
finish tapping alignment rail and shift rails in.
Now it’s ready for front gasket. NOS one are always shrunken up..
you can put in the microwave, or in a pan of boiling
water to loosen it up.
It is easy to make them..use front of case as template..
the gasket can be inverted..it should be obvious…but
if you make or buy…make sure the hole for the oil passage is
there, and in correct place..
I also put some sealant on the front end of mainshaft..under gasket.
it doesn't turn..
with gasket and sealant, and being pressed against bellhousing
it shouldn't leak..more peace of mind..!
oil from inside the case is used through this hole
to lube front bearing..it is opened to front-
inside the retainer
And the retainer uses a little splash lube to travel out the
rifling inside the bearing carrier..
the input shaft is turning in there to propel oil..
to drip out the hole on bottom to grease bearing carrier..
Not too much oil..because there is a seal
I have used the old cork seals..or the new fabric ones..
I have also made them from
carpet liner..they keep oil from running out…
but have to let a little bit wick out
this picture shows release bearing on carrier
It slips on retainer..I put just a little grease on it
The spring pulls carrier back toward case..
the ball is the pivot for clutch control fork
almost have a transmission..!
rail cap on front of case
this is usually missing
supposed to keep oil from coming out
a little sealant on outside edge before you smack it in place
top gasket…and shift plate spring…under the shifter plate..!
yes..I have seen the all the discussions.. the math “proves” it doesn’t do
anything on top…but if it is under..it holds shifter plate up against
machined surface on inside of top housing..which acts as a fulcrum and levers
far end of shift plate down into notch on rail…
assemble it without spring…reach down thru top housing with
wire…you can rattle shifter plate..
assemble it with spring on top of shifter plate..again reach down
with wire..shifter plate rattles..
assemble it with spring under shifter plate..no rattle..
I believe it goes under plate…but I didn’t "write the book on transmissions"
shifter plate on..
if I’m not using it in a vehicle
right away..I will wire back bearing in place
just wrap wire around on of the top housing bolts..
put a little oil in..play with rails..moving them..try turning imput
and watch output..
A new and dry transmission does not shift or turn easily..
you will think it is not right..
when you fill it with oil..and have it turning with a motor..
it will shift..!
synchro’s actually require a layer of oil on blocking rings
to function..Mercedes books have a really good section on the dynamics of manual transmissions…
hope this helped a few people..
the transmission is not beyond anyone
who can work on this jeep..it is pretty straight forward..
comments and tips appreciated...
this is just my way of doing transmissions..
I'm sure there are others..
thanks...john
The final steps with top end actually go pretty easily.
The books and manuals however, don’t have very clear
drawings..most of them are exploded diagrams- you can’t tell
clearly what goes in where..
I’m going to try and show the rails, springs, forks, etc…in their
relative positions
This picture shows the rails outside..in their relative position.
The 1st/rev is shorter. If you line up the notches for the interlock
plunger facing each other, and the cutouts in rail for shift lever and shift
plate..2nd/3rd is on inside..1st/rev is on top…and notches for poppet
balls on bottom…it starts to be logical.
The small rail is to align the forks…the large fork rides in the channel on the large gear (1st/rev) at back of case..the small fork rides in synchro groove…slide alignment rail through small hole in case, and respective holes in forks.
another picture to show rail arrangement
I push rails in their respective case holes from back…through forks..up to the holes for the springs and poppet balls…spring goes in first on bottom..then poppet ball..
The object is two hold the ball down..while pushing rail over it..
It can be tricky..I tried another shift rail..a drift, etc..
but I wind up just using the flat of a screwdriver..inserted from the front..levering off the top of the hole…and then hitting back end of rail with hammer..
the first few times..it will pop out..fly all over the room..
a third hand covering the hole..or handling the hammer is better..
and..now that the spring and ball are clean..it can fly out pretty fast
safety glasses… or keep it covered!
now you wiggle rail to line up notch on rail..with set crew
hole on fork ..the set screw goes in pretty easily now..
compared to getting them out…
but you do need to line up fork and notch for it to go all the way in
finish tapping alignment rail and shift rails in.
Now it’s ready for front gasket. NOS one are always shrunken up..
you can put in the microwave, or in a pan of boiling
water to loosen it up.
It is easy to make them..use front of case as template..
the gasket can be inverted..it should be obvious…but
if you make or buy…make sure the hole for the oil passage is
there, and in correct place..
I also put some sealant on the front end of mainshaft..under gasket.
it doesn't turn..
with gasket and sealant, and being pressed against bellhousing
it shouldn't leak..more peace of mind..!
oil from inside the case is used through this hole
to lube front bearing..it is opened to front-
inside the retainer
And the retainer uses a little splash lube to travel out the
rifling inside the bearing carrier..
the input shaft is turning in there to propel oil..
to drip out the hole on bottom to grease bearing carrier..
Not too much oil..because there is a seal
I have used the old cork seals..or the new fabric ones..
I have also made them from
carpet liner..they keep oil from running out…
but have to let a little bit wick out
this picture shows release bearing on carrier
It slips on retainer..I put just a little grease on it
The spring pulls carrier back toward case..
the ball is the pivot for clutch control fork
almost have a transmission..!
rail cap on front of case
this is usually missing
supposed to keep oil from coming out
a little sealant on outside edge before you smack it in place
top gasket…and shift plate spring…under the shifter plate..!
yes..I have seen the all the discussions.. the math “proves” it doesn’t do
anything on top…but if it is under..it holds shifter plate up against
machined surface on inside of top housing..which acts as a fulcrum and levers
far end of shift plate down into notch on rail…
assemble it without spring…reach down thru top housing with
wire…you can rattle shifter plate..
assemble it with spring on top of shifter plate..again reach down
with wire..shifter plate rattles..
assemble it with spring under shifter plate..no rattle..
I believe it goes under plate…but I didn’t "write the book on transmissions"
shifter plate on..
if I’m not using it in a vehicle
right away..I will wire back bearing in place
just wrap wire around on of the top housing bolts..
put a little oil in..play with rails..moving them..try turning imput
and watch output..
A new and dry transmission does not shift or turn easily..
you will think it is not right..
when you fill it with oil..and have it turning with a motor..
it will shift..!
synchro’s actually require a layer of oil on blocking rings
to function..Mercedes books have a really good section on the dynamics of manual transmissions…
hope this helped a few people..
the transmission is not beyond anyone
who can work on this jeep..it is pretty straight forward..
comments and tips appreciated...
this is just my way of doing transmissions..
I'm sure there are others..
thanks...john
- Mark Tombleson
- MZ Radio Operator
- Posts: 9836
- Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:58 pm
- Location: Selah, Washington
- Bob N
- Captain USAF (Ret)
- Posts: 13212
- Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 7:27 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
To help keep your poppets from flying around the room what I use is a small diameter brass drift to push the ball/spring down. Then it is a simple matter to tap or push the shift rails into position. You remove the drift when the rail covers the ball by about halfway.
Very nice clear pictures. Do you leave the bearing retainer bare metal or do you paint it before installation?
Very nice clear pictures. Do you leave the bearing retainer bare metal or do you paint it before installation?
Bob N.
Visit www.42FordGPW.com
42FordGPW Store
Sign up for my blog about WW2 jeeps and related information
Visit www.42FordGPW.com
42FordGPW Store
Sign up for my blog about WW2 jeeps and related information
- Ed Menees
- G-First Lieutenant
- Posts: 629
- Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:35 pm
- Location: Largo, Florida
Great job John.
My two cents worth:
When removing or installing the shift rails, it is much easier to slide them in if you will rotate them at least 90 degrees to keep the poppet balls from engaging. Once the rails are in the approximate position (neutral) you can then rotate them and the poppet balls will snap them in place.
My simple way to stop the oil migration from the transfer case to the trans is to use a double sealed (Rubber/Vinyl) rear bearing. (KBC 6307 SRS). When you are ready to put the main shaft in place (final), I put a little sealant around the outside edge of the bearing to form a seal to the trans case. (Permatex Ultra Black 598B). Keep the bearing firmly seated in the case and let it cure overnight. This also helps prevent the main shaft from slipping out accidentally and dropping your needle bearings.
I put this same sealer on the threads of any bolt that is exposed to the oil in transmission or transfer case. I put this sealer on both sides of the front and rear gasket around the outside edges. My transmission and transfer case are virtually leak free.
My two cents worth:
When removing or installing the shift rails, it is much easier to slide them in if you will rotate them at least 90 degrees to keep the poppet balls from engaging. Once the rails are in the approximate position (neutral) you can then rotate them and the poppet balls will snap them in place.
My simple way to stop the oil migration from the transfer case to the trans is to use a double sealed (Rubber/Vinyl) rear bearing. (KBC 6307 SRS). When you are ready to put the main shaft in place (final), I put a little sealant around the outside edge of the bearing to form a seal to the trans case. (Permatex Ultra Black 598B). Keep the bearing firmly seated in the case and let it cure overnight. This also helps prevent the main shaft from slipping out accidentally and dropping your needle bearings.
I put this same sealer on the threads of any bolt that is exposed to the oil in transmission or transfer case. I put this sealer on both sides of the front and rear gasket around the outside edges. My transmission and transfer case are virtually leak free.
Last edited by Ed Menees on Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ed Menees
GPW7310 Script
Completed Nov. 2002
GPW7310 Script
Completed Nov. 2002
-
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1307
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:56 pm
- Location: new york
- Contact:
thank you Ed...good tips
In a post a few weeks ago I posted pics
of the changes, and different seals used at the
output shaft to stop oil migration...
the manuals have a progression of changes as they
attempted to deal with that...
the rubber seal and special washer were the
last version...For this transmission I used what i had on hand..
"H" type transmissions are in fact suppossed to use the
rubber seal....
when i mate transmission and transfer case and bellhousing..
I do use some sealant..it does help stop jeep tracks...
john
In a post a few weeks ago I posted pics
of the changes, and different seals used at the
output shaft to stop oil migration...
the manuals have a progression of changes as they
attempted to deal with that...
the rubber seal and special washer were the
last version...For this transmission I used what i had on hand..
"H" type transmissions are in fact suppossed to use the
rubber seal....
when i mate transmission and transfer case and bellhousing..
I do use some sealant..it does help stop jeep tracks...
john
- DarrylD
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1787
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 8:30 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
- Contact:
Wow, I knew there was a reason I was procrastinating on assembling my tranny with all new parts! I realize now that I was waiting for John's awesome tutorial.
Thanks John!
BTW: I did get the transfer case back together last weekend.
Darryl D.
Thanks John!
BTW: I did get the transfer case back together last weekend.
Darryl D.
Hey my website has moved to http://www.darrylsgarage.com
- lucakiki
- G-General
- Posts: 17578
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:18 am
- Location: Torino, ITALY
John, thank you for an excellent work.Even if not all gee members will put that in writing (I am afraid it would clog the forum) I am sure they all appreciated your suggestions and are just as grateful as I am for the great posts. Thank you, wholeheartedly.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
- DavidA
- Equipment Operator, Heavy -2nd Class
- Posts: 6305
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:15 am
- Location: Millbrae, CA
- Contact:
- Mighty Eighth
- G-Major General
- Posts: 2507
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:37 am
- Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Excellent job, John. The best tutorial I have seen on the T-84. Any novice with minimal tools can do this job with your tutorial. Your pics are top rate, too. Again, many thanks. gary
Contrails were the angel's arrows for the G503 to follow.
1944 GPW 240211
1945 GEMCO T-1 #316
1947 CJ2-A 94837
1948 CJ2-A 208725
1944 GPW 240211
1945 GEMCO T-1 #316
1947 CJ2-A 94837
1948 CJ2-A 208725
- Kenneth
- G-Second Lieutenant
- Posts: 593
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:48 am
- Location: Norway ,Oslo
- Contact:
Super!
Super Job John !
Your "walktrough" together with a original TM will make it easy for anyone to rebuild their t 84.
Thanks !
Kenneth
Your "walktrough" together with a original TM will make it easy for anyone to rebuild their t 84.
Thanks !
Kenneth
1942 GPW 67060 "Sophie"
1944 MB ( frame only )
1945 Bantam T3
1955 Polynorm 1/4 ton trailer
1979 Jeep CJ7 Golden Eagle 304
1978 Jeep CJ5 Golden Eagle 304
http://www.jeepfabrikken.no
http://home.online.no/~leela/
1944 MB ( frame only )
1945 Bantam T3
1955 Polynorm 1/4 ton trailer
1979 Jeep CJ7 Golden Eagle 304
1978 Jeep CJ5 Golden Eagle 304
http://www.jeepfabrikken.no
http://home.online.no/~leela/
-
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1307
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:56 pm
- Location: new york
- Contact:
thanks Kennth..
I grew up in Oslo...
My father was stationed there with NATO..
lived near a race track...horses
street was Ruglandvein..in Eiksmarka???
neighbors were Ericsons and Modasli..?
one of them was high up in gov't??
used to go to military recreation area..above artic circle
riendeer on the lake...skiing, troops being used for packing the snow at holmenkollen ski jump...
I was too young for jeeps then...wish i knew then about all the jeeps that were there...
John
I grew up in Oslo...
My father was stationed there with NATO..
lived near a race track...horses
street was Ruglandvein..in Eiksmarka???
neighbors were Ericsons and Modasli..?
one of them was high up in gov't??
used to go to military recreation area..above artic circle
riendeer on the lake...skiing, troops being used for packing the snow at holmenkollen ski jump...
I was too young for jeeps then...wish i knew then about all the jeeps that were there...
John
-
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 4387
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 9:27 am
- Location: Southern New Jersey
T84
Great Job John;
that took alot of effort on your part and I would like to thank you for my father and I.
I will be printing all of your post of and keeping them in my garage with my other manuals,
Thanks again.
Ernie
that took alot of effort on your part and I would like to thank you for my father and I.
I will be printing all of your post of and keeping them in my garage with my other manuals,
Thanks again.
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
- rp256
- G-Command Sergeant Major
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:45 am
- Location: Lorraine - FRANCE
- Contact:
- willy
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 3502
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:42 pm
- Location: Oakland,Ca.
transmission
Thanks John,
It made all the memories come back when I worked at Archer Bros for 14 Years and did lots off T84 and transfer cases.
I was always very nervous in the earley years when I was driving the Rubicon or Sierra Trek many people told me
We will see how your work will hold up here Willy
Willy
It made all the memories come back when I worked at Archer Bros for 14 Years and did lots off T84 and transfer cases.
I was always very nervous in the earley years when I was driving the Rubicon or Sierra Trek many people told me
We will see how your work will hold up here Willy
Willy
I have Military and Radio Surplus.
MVPA Life Member 683
1943 GPW 98356, 1964 M151, and trailers, plus many Radio's 916-761-5293
Seabee Navy 1982-1988
NRA life Member, KE6EMX
Sold M35A2, M38, M38A1, M880 M37B1 all restored by me
MVPA Life Member 683
1943 GPW 98356, 1964 M151, and trailers, plus many Radio's 916-761-5293
Seabee Navy 1982-1988
NRA life Member, KE6EMX
Sold M35A2, M38, M38A1, M880 M37B1 all restored by me
- Rick57_ca
- G-Staff Sergeant
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:32 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Sticky Transmission.
You didn't put that beutiful piece of art back into service did you?...lol. My wife just loves it when I take over the kitchen dinner table with my latest "fix". Great job in chronology, pics and annotation.
1953 M38A1 CDN
1975 Kawasaki Z1 900 (yes, it's fast).
1975 Kawasaki Z1 900 (yes, it's fast).
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: compostwerks, Google Adsense [Bot], loose nut dan, maurywhurt and 71 guests