Is this too much head weeping

[101son]

The motor has 200 miles since rebuild. It sat on the frame for 5 years before being started. I don't know what type of head gasket is on it as it was put together when I bought it.
-I am working on making sure timing is on right now and have the question out there as to where to view the marks from. At an angle from near the battery down at the view port or my head between the bumper and grill strait on over the axle.I do live at 6500 feet above sea level so will have to adjust for that.
-Tried 4 thermostats, radiator was boiled and rodded before motor startup 5 months ago. The hottest day it has been out since startup is about 80 degrees. It has gotten to 210.
-I checked the temp with a infrared thermometer and is close to what the gauge shows. I've tried the original type thermostat, a few different degree pellet thermostats (160 and 180) and now have a 160 high end balanced something or other thermostat in it and they all seem to run 30 - 40 degrees hotter than they are made for. I've drilled the 1/8 inch hole in the housing as mentioned here.
- I do loose antifreeze even if at 190 out of the cap/overflow. The cap I have i think is original round style 4 lb. I haven't found a place to be able to check the cap.
-I have not flushed out the motor although did run about 6 runs (meaning 6 times I drained it and ran it with clean water) of just water through the system when I realized it wasn't the thermostat a few months ago.I don't think the engine had any antifreeze in it as the radiator wasn't hooked up until I did it. I guess it could have had some crud after rebuild?
-Does the photo of the weeping at the head mean anything to anyone? I've seen other photos and does not seem to look like this.


-should I get a combustion detection test kit to see if any gasses are getting into the coolant? I don't see any bubbles but then again my radiator doesn't like to carry enough water in it to view for very long as it spits it out to at or below the angled piece in the radiator.

[OldPappy]

It would not hurt to pull the head and replace the head gasket, and while it is unbuttoned you can have a look into the water jacket and passages in both the block and head.

One thing a lot of folks don't think to check when an engine is running hot is the timing. If the timing is off it can cause overheating issues.

I read your post again and see that you are already looking at the timing. The timing marks are on the front side of the flywheel, and can be viewed through a port for that purpose on the right side of the block flange.

[harve]

Get rid of the thermostat in the summer months , its not necessary

[twinflyer17]

I agree with pappy on that one. A head gasket is a cheap and easy job and replacing will give you peace of mind, too.

[artificer]

A number of things are evident & these need to be addressed one @ a time without a shot gunning approach.

What is pictured [weeping appearance around the head gasket] is not abnormal on a new engine that needs to be run for a while, then the head re-torqued in the correct sequence.

Actually looks more like some type Permatex non hardening sealant someone has used [they should not have] when fitting the head gasket & NOT a coolant leak. No reason to be pulling the head or interfering with the gasket is indicated.

If one keeps continually refilling, the antifreeze will always keep spewing out the radiator overflow on heatup, until the correct level is established.
Suggest not continually topping up.
Correct level is about 2 knuckles under the radiator cap recess.
210 @ that altitude is expected [mine ran on that temperature, sometimes a little over for a couple of years in Reno NV].
Never hurt anything!
I ran a 7# cap, 180* thermostat & never lost coolant, once correct level was established, as above.

The cooling system is NOT boiling [& that it the important issue] if one can squeeze either of the hot radiator hoses & they feeling taught [nice & tight]. If not tight but squishy the engine has insufficient coolant, no coolant pressure, the cap is not sealing or the engine has boiled & lost too much coolant.

The issue illustrated has nothing to do with the thermostat, an integral part of the cooling system, that should always be in place.

The running temperature could have to do with the radiator if an aftermarket lesser capacity than original job.

Search Marty, SoCal recent posts for his cooling experiences in the mountains....topic may have been about vapourizing?

[Joe Gopan]

The gasket may be OK.
All Jeep Gaskets need to be retorqued at initial start and warm up. Warm it up, retorque the head while it is hot. A 4# Cap is what it uses, does it have the rubber gasket made to it where it rests in the neck, if not, it is supposed to have either a fibre or rubber gasket that rests in the bottom of the neck. It is common to kick out extra coolant and it will seek its own level which is at the low point of the slanted baffle in the upper tank. Trust the lower level, it will stay there unless you overfill it again. Do not run without a thermostat. Try a 160F Thermostat, that's what the factory installed.

[Cal.Bar]

I agree with pappy on that one. A head gasket is a cheap and easy job and replacing will give you peace of mind, too.

Until you break a stud below the block line!

[Joe Gopan]

Which style cap do you have, original with separate gasket or late with a rubber gasket on the valve?

[twinflyer17]

Until you break a stud below the block line!

Shh, don’t scare the guy! In all seriousness, though, breaking a stud period is a PITA.

[Peterdodge6volt]

I never use thermostat on all 4 of mine jeeps all my temperature gauges sticks to 155F in hot weather and 120 in cold weather.
My brother in law did the same thing in 3 of his jeeps like mine.

Peter

[dinof]

Don't pull the head! As John mentioned it looks more like a Permatex compound than anti-freeze. As per the TM that I read everyday, states you can remove the thermostat housing & thermostat, then fill it up to the level of the head and disconnect the fan belt, and start the motor. Rev it a few times to see the presence of air bubbles. Make sure it's just not a little trapped air when you filled it but bubbles that keep appearing again and again.

Watch your temp gauge so you don't overheat!!!

Let us know-

[Mark Tombleson]

... a lot of the replacement thermostats are 180 degrees and not the 160 degree thermostat type that came on the jeep. Nowadays they use a longer retainer and a newer style thermostat.

TM 9-803 Section XVII "Cooling System" page 138 has the specs.

Opens at 145 to 155 F
Fully opened at 170 F

You can do without the thermostat in your jeep, but it won't warm up very fast when its cold and it will over heat easier when it is hot out because the water passes through the radiator too fast not allowing it time to cool down.

The correct thermostat, WO-637646, FM-GPW-8575 (Harrison Radiator Corp. # 3108628) starts to open at about 145 and is fully open at 170 degrees.

Don't forget you need a thermostat retainer (WO-639651, FM-GPW-8578).

If you get an aftermarket thermostat and retainer I suggest one that fully opens at 160... my opinion only.

Ron Fitzpatrick (the owner of this web site) has the thermostat & retainer for sale if you are interested.

https://www.rfjp.com/p-1895-thermostat-637646.aspx

[101son]

The running temperature could have to do with the radiator if an aftermarket lesser capacity than original job.

I think it is original.

All Jeep Gaskets need to be retorqued at initial start and warm up. Warm it up, retorque the head while it is hot. A 4# Cap is what it uses, does it have the rubber gasket made to it where it rests in the neck, if not, it is supposed to have either a fibre or rubber gasket that rests in the bottom of the neck.

I have retorqued 4 times out of paranoia.

I think both are 4 lb. The one on the right is for sure. The other is an original I think

IMG_2120.JPG (88.08 KiB) Viewed 931 times

As per the TM that I read everyday, states you can remove the thermostat housing & thermostat, then fill it up to the level of the head and disconnect the fan belt, and start the motor.

Ill give it a shot.
And thanks everyone for the info/advise. Any ideas on timing marks for altitude? I read that about half way between the IO and IGN should be about 7.5 degrees, I will need more.
Also about 1.5 to 2 turns from the seat on the carb? Does that sound right?
Thanks-

[artificer]

The cap on the right is the type that needs a gasket in the radiator filler neck.
The other one I have never seen.
If combustion was leaking internally it would be obvious that the cooling system was pumping up & always expelling coolant plus BOILING....something you have not eluded to. No need to remove thermostat or thermostat housing to check.
Do not over torque the head & don't worry something to death that is quite normal.
What I see @ the side is precisely what I suggested earlier & not to be worried about.

[TonyStandefer]

Running without a thermostat has to be one of the most common automotive myths..