Starter motor eeek noise

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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David V
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Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:51 am

Well it seems winter is finally over. It's been too long. My jeep has not turned over for 6 months. Since october. No time, bad weather...

So today I took the charged up 6 volt battery over to the garage. Pumped through the gas and hey away she goes !
I put in an electronic ignition system today and it's perfect.

So what's wrong ? Well I stopped the engine to take off some tools that were on the fenders before they fell off and pressed the starter. Strange noise. The usual starter motor-like whirr and EEEK ! It stopped. Like seized.
I tried again and the same thing happened. Then again and she started fine. Drove around a bit. Put back in the garage. Turned her off.
Pressed the starter again and the same EEEEK sound.

So I turned it over without the contact on. The starter motor turns fine. I then turned it over without the contact on and then turned the key and EEEK. Starter motor stopped.
And then she started again.

Could this be a problem with the bushing seizing ? I haven't had this problem before. I will take the starter motor off tomorrow to look at. Should the bushing be greased ?

The starter motor is from Ron. About 10 years old now.

Cheers.

David
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:38 pm

Vacuum gauge trick ? You'll have to enlighten me there. I do have a vacuum gauge.
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:19 am

Sounds reasonable.
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:29 am

OK I'll check the timing with a strobe this weekend. When she runs, she sounds good but maybe the electronic ignition is not quite set right. I haven't touched it since taking the points out.
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:31 am

I'm surprised that the timing would have such an effect on the starter motor. Reason ?
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by artificer » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:08 am

Luc" wrote:I bet you have timed your engine with the vacuum gauge and have the ignition to far advanced.
This vacuum gauge stuff is just another SA bait.
The only way to win with a toxic person is not to play.


Diagnosis is in order & that always starts with eliminating the simple stuff.

There are bushes in the starter & starter motor housing aligning the armature in that housing with the bush in the bell housing.

I recollect another contributor to this thread advocating a US cent/penny as a replacement for the small core plug [very often missing] sealing the bell housing bush to eliminate contaminants from this bush & it drying out.

Start by checking these bushes are lubricated before all this current vacuum gauge, timing & pinion guessing stuff comes to the fore.

Timing being too advanced puts additional load on the starter.
Easily eliminated [diagnosed]....
1. turn the starter with the ignition off
2. turn the starter the with the ignition on.

Major difference in turning speed [less resistance when the ignition is off] indicates an advanced ignition timing issue.
No difference & you are on just another one of those wild goose chases.
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:35 am

Cheers this is pointing towards an advanced timing problem. So definately time to get a strobe gun to it.
I'll let you all know.
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by artificer » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:48 am

Static timing is just as good with this vehicle.
First set the point gap correctly with feeler gauges or a dwell meter.
Either method reading correctly, indicates the points are set to 0.020".

Get the timing set on mark in window, then with the ignition on move the distributor housing slightly either way till the points just crack....you'll hear this or can set up a test light across the points.
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:07 am

A timing light is the best method, but not all timing lights are created equal and can be difficult to effectively position to view the timing hole. The old Army Timing Lights are easier to use. I install the timing pointer from a Late CJ-3A thru CJ-5 on the WWII engines and file a notch on the Crankshaft Pulley. It is not noticeable and it will make your Jeep engine smile. :wink:
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:11 am

I have electronic ignition on so I can't open the points.There are none ! So a timing light is the only way to go I guess.
See what you mean about getting a lamp in there.
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by artificer » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:22 am

The only way to win with a toxic person is not to play.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:38 am

A friend is coming Monday with his timing light so I can get this checked. And a 12v battery as I'm on 6v.

How you manage to actually see the timing marks on the flywheel and get a lamp in there, I do not know. I guess it's all done with mirrors...
Anyway in the meantime I retarded the timing 2/3° yesterday to see what difference it would make and it is pretty perfect !
The EEK noise has totally gone.
Didn't have time to go for a run though.

The easiest, smoothest 6 volt start ever. Electronic ignition (John Wisley in England). Not even a cough or splutter.

So I hope Monday we'll be able to see where it is with the lamp.

Thanks for the tips.
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:08 am

I use a Surplus GI timing light which is shorter than modern ones. About the only time the vacuum gage is used is for setting idle air mixture.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by YLG80 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:48 pm

I cannot bless enough Luc for that timing pointer tip.
Following his advice, I've cut such a pointer based on a drawing found on the CJ-2a forum.
IMG_5104-WEB.JPG
IMG_5104-WEB.JPG (135.98 KiB) Viewed 488 times
GPW_TIMING_POINTER_DOUBLE_PULLEY.JPG
GPW_TIMING_POINTER_DOUBLE_PULLEY.JPG (117.54 KiB) Viewed 488 times
It makes the timing check and adjustment so easy :wink: !
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Re: Starter motor eeek noise

Post by David V » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:27 pm

YLG80 wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:48 pm
I cannot bless enough Luc for that timing pointer tip.
Following his advice, I've cut such a pointer based on a drawing found on the CJ-2a forum.
IMG_5104-WEB.JPG
GPW_TIMING_POINTER_DOUBLE_PULLEY.JPG

It makes the timing check and adjustment so easy :wink: !
Nice tool. Can you post the tech drawing ?
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