MB Motor Mounts

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
OldPappy
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MB Motor Mounts

Post by OldPappy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:32 am

Started to install the engine I have, noticed something I had forgotten about.

The frame is a CJ2A, the engine is a WW2 engine, so the driver side foot on the engine plate is forward, the foot on a CJ2A engine is rearward, so the motor mount does not line up.

Options which occur to me:

1) Move the motor mount stand to fit the engine (grind the rivets, drill new holes and re-rivet).
2) Replace the front plate with the one from the CJ engine I have ( I do not know if there are differences between the plate for chain drive or gear drive cam).
3) Find out, by asking here, if there is a better way.
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Michael O.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by Michael O. » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:42 am

Replace the front plate. Also, if you have a CJ why not reinstall a CJ motor?
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by OldPappy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:11 am

I have a freshly rebuilt MB engine, and while the CJ engine I have runs okay it has a cracked block.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by artificer » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:45 am

As Michael indicated suggested interchanging the front engine mounting plates.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:22 pm

All is not lost'
Willys had a KIT, Adaptor, Engine Mounting, WO-647951 used to adapt early engines with two forward bent front engine plates to fit CJ-3A and later Jeeps with frames having staggered engine mounts. The Adaptor bracket is WO-647913
Will try to post a pic if this little known jewel that has saved Jeep owners a lot of work over the past nearly 70 years.

Sean Collins will know about this and might have the Willys Service Bulletin on the adaptor. If anyone has a pic and wants to post it, I wont mind.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:10 pm

Adapter plate 1.JPG
Adapter plate 1.JPG (127.13 KiB) Viewed 1076 times
Adapter plate 2.JPG
Adapter plate 2.JPG (129.48 KiB) Viewed 1076 times
adapter Plate 3.JPG
adapter Plate 3.JPG (129.22 KiB) Viewed 1076 times
Adapter Plate.JPG
Adapter Plate.JPG (130.87 KiB) Viewed 1076 times

They came out nice, didn't they? :wink:
Am supposed to have two of these, saving them for when I might need them. Many of you may have one and did not know what it is for.
The 647913 Adapter was available from Jeep at least thru 1956. It is made so that the early engine will fit late frame or the late engine can be installed in early frame.
Note the offset of the 1/2" Bolt Hole.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by OldPappy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:55 pm

The adapter is cool, but I bet they are as scarce as hen's teeth. :) However, it doesn't look like something very difficult to fabricate.

As suggested, I could weld a piece onto the thing and be done with it, or after looking at this adapter I could even bolt a piece onto it.

I am still wondering if it would be a problem to simply move the stand up enough to mate to the foot that is on it. Looks like I might have to also move the bracket for the brake line if I did that, but that isn't a big deal since I am routing new brake lines anyway.

Also, I am very pleased to see folks who obviously have more experience with these old machines than I do sharing their knowledge and ideas. The last time I did one of these things was before we had the internet, and in those days you couldn't so easily connect with experts, and tracking down parts meant doing some travel. That one was a M38, and it came to me with a real good body, but a Buick V6 engine in it. Without the internet, I advertised in the newspaper looking for what I needed to put it back right, and ended up buying two junk jeeps, and trading the V6 for another engine (was a Ford engine), and out of the three engines I managed to get enough good parts to build one that was almost right for the M38, but not 100%.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by Marty, SoCal » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:19 am

I wouldn't modify the frame, it should be easy to fabricate an adapter out of 1/4" plate steel to bolt to the original foot on the front plate and relocate the mounting hole, or conversely, make a plate to bolt to the frame with flathead bolts and then relocate the holes for the mount to match the WW2 mount location. Should take about 1 hour to fabricate at most. A 1/4" spacer on the other side will keep the engine level.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:06 am

Anyone have one of these WO 647913 ADAPTORS? will buy a couple. I used to find these on 4 CYL "F"-Head Wagons for some strange reason but it was rare and I did not pay attention to all the details.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by OldPappy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:02 pm

Wouldn't be hard to fabricate something like one of those adaptors.

I am also thinking about simply bolting, or welding, a piece cut out of heavy angle to the backside of the existing foot, that would keep it level without having any spacer on the other mount. I have some 4" angle, and C channel scraps left from building a trailer.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:54 pm

The Adaptor 647913 has kept a lot of engine changes out of trouble, the alternative was to change the front engine plate. Time has taken a toll and the 647913 along with it.
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HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by OldPappy » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:30 pm

I have two CJ front engine plates, but someone indicated they aren't interchangeable. I can take the timing cover off and take a look, but if someone already knows for sure they aren't interchangeable I would just as soon fabricate a solution, and leave an already sealed cover intact. Fabricating an adapter isn't hard to do, but if the plate from a gear drive engine will fit a chain drive that would make for a cleaner look.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by OldPappy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am

Many thanks for the pictures, this makes the decision clear, and saves unnecessary disassembly.
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by Bruce W » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 pm

I don't understand your problem, OldPappy. It sounds to me as if you already have the wrong plate on your MB engine. My MB, my GPW, and all of my chain-drive engines and spare chain-drive plates have both feet pointing rearwards, the same as all of my CJ2-A's. Very early CJ2-A's got chain-drive engines (left-over MB engines in some). The CJ3A and M38 were the first ones to have the left foot pointing forward, and then the F-heads. Willys pickups and wagons, now, I can't speak for them. They had their own plate and mount set-up. I do have one spare Cj3A engine that has a forward-pointing left-side foot, and it has a piece of angle bolted to the back-side of the plate to act as a rear-facing foot. Very simple. BW
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Re: MB Motor Mounts

Post by OldPappy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:11 am

After 70+ years there is no telling what this engine has been installed into since it's original use.

It is a WW2 chain drive cam engine, so the plate probably is not original to the engine. May have been needed for whatever it was installed in last time.

As said it wouldn't be difficult to either make an adaptor, or modify this plate.

On a hunch I went over to my friend's shop on the way home from work yesterday. There were parts left over from a Jeep build I did over there 25 years ago.

I didn't expect these parts to still be there, but I did remember where I stacked them. We went into the parts shed to look, and under a large pile of other stuff we found various parts from that project including a good chain drive plate with the feet both pointing backward as needed.

Perhaps if we dig some more we may find the rest of the engine which had a Ford head on it. The oil pan was below the plate in the stack, and had all sorts of small parts in it that will be fun to sort out.

So, now I can either replace the plate, or fabricate a mount. I probably will replace the plate, as doing that will compel me to do what I should do anyway. It is a recently rebuilt engine, but I have no idea who rebuilt it, or how far they went to get it right. I always use new timing sets on a build, but some don't. For peace of mind I should at least do a take down to short block, check timing set, replace front and rear seals, check the valves/seats, and check oil pump / distributer for wear.
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