Steering Knuckle Shims

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
KiwiMB
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by KiwiMB » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:09 pm

Isn't it time you were in bed Joel???? Its 5.00pm on this side of the world, heaven knows what time it is at your house :lol: :lol:
Ian J
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Ben Dover
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by Ben Dover » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:17 pm

Tis midnite, and I'm just getting cranked up. Just came in from giving my dog an armed escort while she took a leak. Spotted a Coyote sneaking around.
Keep up the good maintenance tips.
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bantamj
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by bantamj » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:13 am

Ian, Good thinking! Saves a lot of hard time getting these king pins off several times to get it right.

Best Regards,
Luc

majmacs
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by majmacs » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:29 am

bantamj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:55 am
Land Rover has that bronze taper on top as well.
It is spring loaded and it is failing from time to time...at least on the little LR's we had in the Belgian army (which is also little :lol: )
The both sides roller bearing is a better more expensive design to my humble opinion.
Never seen a jeep where it actually failed, even never seen one that had play.
The bearings do wear at 1 spot, In the straight forward position, but other than that it is flawless.

Best Regards,
Luc
Land Rover went to tapered roller bearings top and bottom many years ago at least on the Defender......and the top ones occasionally collapse which translates into a very obvious death wobble around 30-40 mph. Easy to repair but takes time to do it properly.
Patrick

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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by Ben Dover » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:01 am

I still prefer the method prescribed in the service manuals as I have had a lot of practice. Ian's suggestion may be easier for some who try and may work out better for them. Best to buy some new shim packs in order to have sufficient shims to obtain the desired preload.
There are all kinds of situations encountered with 7 decade old Jeeps that have had no care since the factory or military, the worst case is worn seats for the bearing cups that allow a loose fit of the cups, this will separate the tinkerers from the mechanics.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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dinof
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by dinof » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:25 am

Has anyone tried this one, or is it wrong ? : Put bottom cap on first and tighten it down WITHOUT SHIMS. Next, put enough shims on the top & tighten down. If the pound pull is correct, then take the top shims off and put 1/2 of those shims on the bottom.
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dpcd67
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by dpcd67 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:05 am

No but it sounds like a good idea. I need to do my M38 this month and I think I will use your method. As long as you end up with about the same top and bottom, that is the goal, along with the pre load of course. More than one way to skin a cat. Not that I ever skinned one.
I usually divide up the shims that are already on it, and go from there. On worn systems, then you will need fewer shims. On new bearings and cups, that restores the height and then you will want a new shim pack as you might need more shims. The solder method, mentioned above, used like a plasti-gauge would work too.
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dinof
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by dinof » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:31 am

I forgot to mention that you would have to make sure that when you take half of the shims out for the bottom, that they are the same thickness as the top ones.....

I lived with a shimmy on my old jeep for about a year because I was young (40 years ago) and didn't know how to do this fix.
Dino Falabrino
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43

Ben Dover
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by Ben Dover » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:52 am

And pay attention to the location of the 2 "DOWEL STUDS" on each MB/GPW upper cap. CJ's and M-38/M-38A1 do not have the special dowel studs. :wink:
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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KiwiMB
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by KiwiMB » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:01 pm

Hi folks,
the resin core solder method I described earlier was taught by the Ford Motor Co back in the 1970's for setting diff pinion preload for the Mk111 Cortina range. I have successfully used this methodology is dozens of different situations where 2 tapered rollers required preloading, including the steering knuckles on my MB. The only thing that is a must here is a 0 - 1" micrometer and the ability to read it correctly :wink: :wink:

Cheers

Ian
Ian J
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1941 Willys MB
1942 Dodge WC 53
1953 M38A1 Nekaf

Bruce W
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by Bruce W » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:56 pm

dpcd67 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:05 am
I need to do my M38 this month. As long as you end up with about the same top and bottom, that is the goal, along with the pre load of course. More than one way to skin a cat. Not that I ever skinned one.
I quote the Service Manual for Universal Jeep Vehicles: "On Model CJ-3A and later models .058" [1,47 mm.] was added to the bottom face of the king pin boss on the steering knuckles. This eliminated the lower king pin bearing shims and the adjustment is made by shims at the top bearing cap only."

I don't know about M38's, but there is a good chance that applies to them as well. Just thought I'd give you a heads-up. BW
G Trp 2nd Sqdrn 3d Armored Cavalry Ft. Lewis 1970-71. 43GPW(Sarge?) 47CJ2A(Teddy) 47CJ2A(Rusty) 48CJ2A(Uncle Linden) 53CJ3B(Nelybel) 88XJ(Pluto) NE CO

KiwiMB
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by KiwiMB » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:43 pm

Hi Bruce,
Your correct, on the M38A1 all the shims go under the top knuckle flange cap. Just read the book as a new M38A1 convert 😁.

Cheers
Ian
Ian J
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1941 Willys MB
1942 Dodge WC 53
1953 M38A1 Nekaf

dpcd67
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by dpcd67 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:28 pm

I have an M38; according to the TM, there are no shims on the bottom; only on the top and all adjustments are carried out on the top. New to me as I have only worked on WW2 jeep knuckles. I guess I would have found this out when I disassembled them. I drove a CJ3A for years but never adjusted the knuckles.
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scheinerj
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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by scheinerj » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:50 pm

This is correct. I think it started with the CJ3As or maybe the late CJ2As.
I guess they just made the bottom thicker.

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Re: Steering Knuckle Shims

Post by Ben Dover » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:34 pm

It pertains to Model CJ-3A and later models. M-38 and M-38A1 have the same Knuckles 641629 and 641630.
Problem is, that 60 70 years later a lot of parts get swapped by those who are not concerned with correct parts being installed or even aware of the differences.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

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