The mystery GPW engine
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The mystery GPW engine
Hi all,
Here is an engine I just bought.
First of all, believe me, I have done my homework, and have been searching all the internet these last 2 weeks for informations, without any success.
To make it simple: it's a Jeep block, wartime pattern, but it's not Willys, not GPW, not Hotchkiss, not post-war Willys. And…..it has a cast GPW 6015, without the script F, and with other unknown markings.
I have stripped it, everything inside was WOF, except manifolds (Willys), but this proves pretty much nothing because it has been rebuilt one or several times (bore +0.010, crankshaft -0.030), and has rivets for at least 3 plates on the oil pump side.
Here are the pictures:
Distributor side:
Note the GPW 6015 without the "-", and the 5H5 where there should be a script F
There is what looks like a date code: 6 10 49 (october 6 or june 10, depending on euro/us date writing). If it is 1949, Ford was not producing G503 engines, Hotchkiss/WOF didn't start theirs (1955 if I'm correct), and Willys was making different engines, and obviously not GPW marked.
The stamped serial looks like a french font, but the boss has been ground off, so it's not very helpful.
Oil pump side:
Nothing special, note the remains of rivets and unpainted areas, suggesting there were at least 3 plates.
Also note the flat top oil pump that looks like a Hotchkiss one for pinion distribution. Yes, this block was chain driven, and has been converted to pinion (??) as I'll show later.
Front side:
Here you can see the second hole in the water pump area.
Also very unusual is the modification made to fit the camshaft retainer for pinion drive, a weld has been done and machined to add some material for the bolt.
Rear side
I didn't see anything unusual here
There's a stamped number just under the head gasket surface
Top
Nothing special here,
There's a "L" next to each cylinder bore
It also looks like valve seats are a separate part, don't know if it's been rebuilt or built that way.
Bottom side:
Interesting things here!
Rear bearing cap is marked 011.113 and GPW 6325, but markings are different from the "classic" Ford pattern.
Also, no script F but a…..Mercedes star?? It's upside down, but looks like it.
The F marked bolt is the only "true" Ford part I've found in this engine.
The bearing cap has a stamped number:
Same one on the block close to the cap, followed by some kind of Mercedes star again, with "2 2 DSM"
There are two other similar stampings, one next to the oil strainer hole
And one on the other side of the rear bearing cap
SO…….any idea of what this block is??
The only small lead I have is here, where someone says that he has heard of GPW6015 engines built post war in Germany, but no proof or additional info was found.
viewtopic.php?p=448411
Here is an engine I just bought.
First of all, believe me, I have done my homework, and have been searching all the internet these last 2 weeks for informations, without any success.
To make it simple: it's a Jeep block, wartime pattern, but it's not Willys, not GPW, not Hotchkiss, not post-war Willys. And…..it has a cast GPW 6015, without the script F, and with other unknown markings.
I have stripped it, everything inside was WOF, except manifolds (Willys), but this proves pretty much nothing because it has been rebuilt one or several times (bore +0.010, crankshaft -0.030), and has rivets for at least 3 plates on the oil pump side.
Here are the pictures:
Distributor side:
Note the GPW 6015 without the "-", and the 5H5 where there should be a script F
There is what looks like a date code: 6 10 49 (october 6 or june 10, depending on euro/us date writing). If it is 1949, Ford was not producing G503 engines, Hotchkiss/WOF didn't start theirs (1955 if I'm correct), and Willys was making different engines, and obviously not GPW marked.
The stamped serial looks like a french font, but the boss has been ground off, so it's not very helpful.
Oil pump side:
Nothing special, note the remains of rivets and unpainted areas, suggesting there were at least 3 plates.
Also note the flat top oil pump that looks like a Hotchkiss one for pinion distribution. Yes, this block was chain driven, and has been converted to pinion (??) as I'll show later.
Front side:
Here you can see the second hole in the water pump area.
Also very unusual is the modification made to fit the camshaft retainer for pinion drive, a weld has been done and machined to add some material for the bolt.
Rear side
I didn't see anything unusual here
There's a stamped number just under the head gasket surface
Top
Nothing special here,
There's a "L" next to each cylinder bore
It also looks like valve seats are a separate part, don't know if it's been rebuilt or built that way.
Bottom side:
Interesting things here!
Rear bearing cap is marked 011.113 and GPW 6325, but markings are different from the "classic" Ford pattern.
Also, no script F but a…..Mercedes star?? It's upside down, but looks like it.
The F marked bolt is the only "true" Ford part I've found in this engine.
The bearing cap has a stamped number:
Same one on the block close to the cap, followed by some kind of Mercedes star again, with "2 2 DSM"
There are two other similar stampings, one next to the oil strainer hole
And one on the other side of the rear bearing cap
SO…….any idea of what this block is??
The only small lead I have is here, where someone says that he has heard of GPW6015 engines built post war in Germany, but no proof or additional info was found.
viewtopic.php?p=448411
GPW #3606 “LIBBY”
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
It looks like my early 1950 Kaiser Willys block but the four rivets are on the opposite side of the block.
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Perhaps if anyone knows what cities Mercedes had factories for casting engines in WWII or shortly thereafter and when Mercedes went back into automobile production, that "DSM" might tell us more.
This block certainly qualifies as a unique one though!
This block certainly qualifies as a unique one though!
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Navarre
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Hi Fabrizio,
Great to know that you found a GPW Go Devil, congrats
Best regards
Great to know that you found a GPW Go Devil, congrats
Best regards
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"
Ford GPW 86534 DoD 12-11-42...in progress!
Resto thread: viewtopic.php?f=144&t=198728
Ford GPW 86534 DoD 12-11-42...in progress!
Resto thread: viewtopic.php?f=144&t=198728
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Hi Navarre,
I have found this one and took it because it was very fairly priced, but I think I will rebuild and sell it, or sell it as it is, because everything points to it being post-war, and I think you know what it is when you get the ford-period-correct fever!
Gindi: I'm also convinced that it's a post-war replacement block, what is amazing is that I have never seen a similar one, and no one seems to have more informations/documents about it, especially in France where these should be found if this was a production for Hotchkiss or for the French army.
I guess making engine blocks is a heavy industrial process, and that whoever did this would have produced at least hundreds or thousands?
Chuck: I have done some researches about german wartime Daimler-Benz production plants because I have found an undocumented BF109 crash site 50m from home, I'll look to see if I find something. Wartime german factories were indeed coded with 3 letters!
I have found this one and took it because it was very fairly priced, but I think I will rebuild and sell it, or sell it as it is, because everything points to it being post-war, and I think you know what it is when you get the ford-period-correct fever!
Gindi: I'm also convinced that it's a post-war replacement block, what is amazing is that I have never seen a similar one, and no one seems to have more informations/documents about it, especially in France where these should be found if this was a production for Hotchkiss or for the French army.
I guess making engine blocks is a heavy industrial process, and that whoever did this would have produced at least hundreds or thousands?
Chuck: I have done some researches about german wartime Daimler-Benz production plants because I have found an undocumented BF109 crash site 50m from home, I'll look to see if I find something. Wartime german factories were indeed coded with 3 letters!
GPW #3606 “LIBBY”
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Gindi, was the body a ESKANOR?
GPW #3606 “LIBBY”
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
The more I learn the more I'm happy with my project GPW: original tub and axles, and not a single french or post-war washer on it, biggest mods were 2 extra hood catches and 2 extra footman loops, both ww2 pattern!
GPW #3606 “LIBBY”
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Hello Fabrizio,
I found an engine that looks like yours.
I have only 2 pictures:
This is detail. The date is 6 9 49. That is close to 6 10 49 isn't it?
The engine belongs to a dealer. I am not interested in buying it but if somebody is interested in knowing more (pictures e.g.) I could ask more details.
Now that I have your attention, I would like to know what you think about this 'GPW'? It has a difficult to read F above the GPW-6015 but no casting date in the middle right and above of where the starter should be.
No casting date ... is that normal?
Greetings
Hans
I found an engine that looks like yours.
I have only 2 pictures:
This is detail. The date is 6 9 49. That is close to 6 10 49 isn't it?
The engine belongs to a dealer. I am not interested in buying it but if somebody is interested in knowing more (pictures e.g.) I could ask more details.
Now that I have your attention, I would like to know what you think about this 'GPW'? It has a difficult to read F above the GPW-6015 but no casting date in the middle right and above of where the starter should be.
No casting date ... is that normal?
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
Speedometer repair service
MB 379881
GPW 253827
Speedometer repair service
MB 379881
GPW 253827
- Michael O.
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Nice early style GPW block. I looks like it's in great shape...it cleaned up well. I think I can see the date code disc in the lower left corner. Can you post the numbers and letter? What's the serial number on the pad?
Michael O’Connell
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Yes, early block, 42 or 43.
Like Michael said, you should find the "clock" on the rear passenger side of the block, quite low.
Like Michael said, you should find the "clock" on the rear passenger side of the block, quite low.
GPW #3606 “LIBBY”
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
"Jeep is America's only real sports car." - Enzo Ferrari
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Hello,
These are the serial numbers on the pad:
and
The date code on the disc is difficult to read.
Greetings
Hans
These are the serial numbers on the pad:
and
The date code on the disc is difficult to read.
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
Speedometer repair service
MB 379881
GPW 253827
Speedometer repair service
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Last edited by airborne-53 on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Hans...
Your GPW-42846 block probably came out in a July 1942 GPW. The "date code wheel" mentioned above is how they did it until much later when they went to the numerical date code just beneath the dipstick on the side of the block. That being said I would figure it to have been cast in late June or early July of 1942.
Your GPW-42846 block probably came out in a July 1942 GPW. The "date code wheel" mentioned above is how they did it until much later when they went to the numerical date code just beneath the dipstick on the side of the block. That being said I would figure it to have been cast in late June or early July of 1942.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Ford GPW 6008, in slow process of restoration.
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Re: The mystery GPW engine
Hello Fabrizio
I have an enigne block the same colour as yours but it is 1942 GPW #57755. I was wondering why my block was all green like yours. It does not have the slightest bit of grey or red on it anywhere. It has been rebuilt so I am thinking that if it had been rebuilt in Germany by Mercedes after the war, then it would be this colour as Mercedes did use this green paint on their engines. I have old Mercedes engines here that are the same colour green.
Adrian
I have an enigne block the same colour as yours but it is 1942 GPW #57755. I was wondering why my block was all green like yours. It does not have the slightest bit of grey or red on it anywhere. It has been rebuilt so I am thinking that if it had been rebuilt in Germany by Mercedes after the war, then it would be this colour as Mercedes did use this green paint on their engines. I have old Mercedes engines here that are the same colour green.
Adrian
GPW #106837
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