Suspenders or not?

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Suspenders or not?

Post by Daren » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:14 am

Hi all, whilst studying lots of ww2 photos I have seen many GI's wearing suspenders and about the same amount not using suspenders. Is there a definitive answer as to why suspenders were used, or was it certain units/regiments that used suspenders, or purely person choice?
Thanks for any advice or information.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by W. Winget » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:23 am

Belt holds trousers up, everyone was issued a belt.
Suspenders held outer garments up like cold weather clothing, over pants, etc. making it easier to don and remove all the layers, and you wanted air in the layers, not cinched up defeating the insulation.
That's what was "issued" up till the 90's
Now some gentleman may be wearing their cold weather clothing outer wear (pants) without all their layers under them, but that's usually only cold weather gear, maybe a warm day.
The war-mild weather general issue uniform pants I have seen (and wore originals in reenactment of that period) had belt loops and no suspender buttons.
Perhaps this is the reason?
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Quartermaster » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:31 am

Just wondering .....

Are we asking about suspenders to hold your pants up (like grandpa used to wear)

Or are we talking about the suspenders (like M-1936 web suspenders) that held up ammo belts, combat packs and such?

I get the feeling that the answer above isn't answering the question posed.

But that's just me.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by W. Winget » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:38 am

Yes, suspenders to hold the pistol belt with gear differed by the amount of gear you were carrying and what your mission was. Different type of equipment VS uniform issue there.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by 42swing » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:24 am

I'm one of those unlucky individuals who don't have enough hip area to keep my pants on with just a belt in most cases, so wear suspenders with my class A's, and in fact even modern suits. I can get by with a belt on my HBTs and jeans, but barely. I also have a named 20th AF uniform that actually fits pretty well, and its previous owner (a fight engineer) apparently had the same problem as there are suspender buttons sewn into the waistband.

I inherited my issue from my Dad, who was a WWII AC vet. I asked him once several years ago about it and his answer was to the effect, "Practicality has to enter in at some point..."
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Daren » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:03 am

Hello, yes sorry, in England we call the items to hold up your trousers (pants in the UK are under garments, just gotta love the English language and it's continental differences) are braces.
I would like to know about webbing gear and the suspenders attached or not as I tried, and failed to explain properly earlier.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by W. Winget » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:17 am

Cannot speak for WWII, but I can offer an opinion for you.
Here's our typical guidelines for field gear: pistol belt and Canteen when we went to local training areas without weapons, then Suspenders, Ammo pouches and canteen when out on maneuvers or "in the field" or taking weapons for the range (this is outside the cantonment area).
I doubt the regulations have changed much.
I'd interpret that as front lines, full gear (you may get separated, pinned down and need all your gear for a while) Rear area ammo belt (WWII/Korea) and canteen.
Drivers were assigned to a vehicle, that was their mission in life, drive the vehicle, not fight unless trouble came their way. So their uniform typically had no ammo belt/canteen worn as they were sitting down most of the time driving (forward Combat areas may have mandated ammo belt worn) It is harder to drive in an ammo belt and canteen, but can be done if you pull it up, they tend to get in the way of twisting around for looking, steering wheels, etc..

Tankers are tankers, their gear is on the tank as they should be, so they would typically not wear an ammo belt unless dismounting to report to a meeting or go for supplies, halt for Infantry to advance, rest, etc. generally if they went more than 20 feet from the tanks position the rule is take your gear.

So it depends on where the photo is taken, forward combat= more guys in gear, toward the rear= less gear as it's removed for comfort, but somewhere nearby unless they are on R&R or a run to the PX, etc.

Now 3rd Army (Patton) had his own guidelines...Soldiers will wear a clean uniform and wear it properly, no slack. That might mean his troops wore combat uniform whenever they were not on the move...which was not too often....so it may also depend on the unit in the photo and their Commanders guidance.
Just an opinion. :D
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Last edited by W. Winget on Fri May 04, 2018 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Daren » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:45 am

Hi Winger, that makes a lot of sense to me and useful in site. Many thanks.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by ng19delta » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:50 am

W. Winget wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:17 am



Now 3rd Armor (Patton) had his own guidelines...Soldiers will wear a clean uniform and wear it properly, no slack. That might mean his troops wore combat uniform whenever they were not on the move...which was not too often....so it may also depend on the unit in the photo and their Commanders guidance.
Just an opinion. :D
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Would have been Third Army under Patton... And his directive required ties be worn by ALL personnel, at ALL times- even in combat! If he happened across a trooper without a tie in his area, he fined him!Usually whether or not the GI was under his command... His firm belief was a soldier should LOOK like a soldier- and he considered sloppiness a mortal sin...

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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Quartermaster » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:09 am

I am trying to understand this discussion. Why use suspenders and braces - - for comfort, style, personal preference, necessity and maybe requirement by a higher authority?

If you can’t keep your pants/trousers/breeches/whatever up due to your body shape then you could consider wearing suspenders/braces out of necessity (or cinch up your belt.) I highly doubt that any serviceman wore such accessories out of stylishness but out of necessity.

As far as gear is concerned – suspenders were designed with utility in mind – not because the GI/Brit/Aussie/whatever fancied them a sporty accessory.

Consider the various needs – pistol belt, ammunition belt (for the 03 or Garand or BAR). Then there is the multitude of items carried on and/or attached to such belts. Pistol and holster, ammo pouches (built into the belt or hung on) with magazines or clips loaded with ammunition, one or more canteens with cups, first aid kits, compass with pouches, knives or bayonets & scabbards, entrenching tools plus possibly some hand grenades and maybe a raincoat or poncho folded and hung over the back. Weigh that load - it really adds up!

The suspenders were designed to attach to such belts and suspend (hence the name!!!) the load from the shoulders instead of from the hips --- easier on the body and keeps that load from slipping down and getting in the way. Notice also that many photos show the suspenders holding the belts higher than the waist line – actually a preferred way to carry such a load.

Next realize that the suspenders were either utilized to support a pack system (like the musette bag) or were actually an integral part of the pack (M-1928, M-1943, M-1944 & M-1945 for example) --- you can’t use these packs without suspenders.

A lot of equipment used in WW2 (and probably all wars) seems strange and uncomfortable but were adapted for a reason just like wool uniforms which seem to be hated by a sizable number of today’s reenactors and history interpreters. It seems that if one wishes to be accurate then one should use the equipment that was used back in the day and study the equipment requirements stated for the unit you have chosen. To pick and choose how to outfit yourself for your own convenience and comfort paints an untrue picture of history and that’s why you do it – right?
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Daren » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:35 am

Thanks for the info, very useful.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Daren » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:39 am

My point was that I have seen many photos and film from the time with images of GI's with loaded belts some having suspenders and others not. I was just asking if there was rhyme or reason to this.
Thanks
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Michael O. » Thu May 03, 2018 11:24 am

You need to realize that not everyone was issued a set of M-1936 suspenders. You need to look up the issuing guidance for these..in line infantry units mostly officers and some NCO’s utilized them . Most line Infantrymen in the ETO were issued the the M-1928 Haversack.

Here is a photo of soldiers of the 134th Infantry (the finest regiment in the ETO) crossing the Roer River across a foot bridge pushing an attack towards Huckelhoven. Notice, no suspenders or haversacks! They would drop their packs before an attack and Service Company would collect them and re-distribute at a later time.
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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by loni17thAirD » Thu May 03, 2018 1:35 pm

This item of equipment is hit or miss.

My father was in the 550th Airborne Infantry Battalion and 17th Airborne Division during WWII. He has pictures of soldiers with and with out suspenders. Once a soldier went into combat it came down to comfort. My father is still alive and I will ask the question. My father once told me after he parachuted into Southern France (Operation Dragoon), he drop his gas mask and other items of equipment.

YouTube is a good source of information on things like this. I kid you not!

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Re: Suspenders or not?

Post by Sarchet » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:13 am

Gather and study as many photos of the unit you are portraying as possible. I have so far only found one instance of a member of the 113th Cavalry Group for sure wearing suspenders and none wearing M1928 packs, and that one individual (out of dozens of photos) also appears to be carrying a BAR - a weapon not in the TO&E of the entire group! On the other hand in some units nearly every man can be seen wearing a pack or suspenders.


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