Very odd rear brake problem

1945 - 196*, Willys CJ series, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the post war jeep.®
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Bob Bell
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Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by Bob Bell » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:49 pm

With all due respect, this is getting a bit Monty Python-esque.
I have spent much time over the years working on farms and doing construction. I have been in many many situations where the airborne debris has been, frankly, horrendous. Happily that was years ago. In the early days - the 70's for me - we had no protection whatsoever. In my construction years - 2002 - 2014 - I had very good protection.
My point here is that at age 71, I have had enough experience to know the pitfalls of using compressed air, chain saws, power tools and married life. I thank everyone for their concern, and please rest assured that I take every precaution. Also, I would never use any of these tools around any animals.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Bob
Bob Bell

1946 CJ2A

Bob Bell
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Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:01 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by Bob Bell » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:50 pm

And PS ...
I do use a shop vac where possible. Sometimes air is simply the most efficient.
Bob Bell

1946 CJ2A

fiveftsix
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Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by fiveftsix » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 am

Looks like this topic has returned again !!!!
As I did make a couple of suggestions earlier
I read through the pages once again taking heed to all the input so far !!!!
One thing that nobody has picked up was a comment that Bob made on page five of this saga.
He made a puller that involved undoing the brake pipe. and was pushing against something on the axle housing.
I can`t think what that something is other than the backing plate flange.
This to me would appear he is using the back plate as a kind of spacer together with the shoes to force the drum and hub off the tapered shaft.
and not a conventional puller that is anchored to the wheel studs and hub.
without more detailed understanding exactly how this improvised puller works could it have bent the back plate in some way ?or the drum ??
long time ago I removed a CJ2a hub ( drivers side too as it happens) using a hydraulic conventional puller when it did give the whole lot puller hub drum flew off passed completely through an internal door and ended up about 4ft the other side.
lesson learnt there !!!!
The point being if that 10 ton hydraulic had that much energy
even the most mundane puller can cause distortion, to the back plate as well as to the drum face which are pretty thin pressings.
So moral here may end up being use the correct tool in the recommended way !!!!
The post I`m referring to is on page 5, 8 posts down or up !!!
Geoff Bull

Bob Bell
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Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by Bob Bell » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 am

Geoff,

The puller I made was used when I was doing a complete tear down and rebuild on another axle. It involved attaching a very long nut to the screw of the puller on one end, and to the threaded end of the axle shaft on the other. The goal was to remove the pressed in axle shaft and bearing from the axle housing. To achieve this the brake backing plate was removed, and the arms of the tool pressed against the rim of the axle housing. I am not in my shop at the moment, and can't recall exactly how I used it, but think I bolted the arms of the tool to the axle housing.

When I have been removing the brake drum on the vehicle with the problematic squeaking brakes, I have been using a regular hub puller which bolts to the wheel studs, and pushes against the nut on the end of the axle shaft. No pressure on the backing plate whatsoever.

I read with a mixture of amusement and alarm Geoff's account of his drum flying off with great force. Moral? Don't completely remove the nut on the end of the axle shaft!

The squeak, incidentally, is back, and with a considerable vengeance. The passenger brake cylinder also seems to be sticking again. I have a new cylinder on order and will install it later this week.

I'll report back with the results.

Bob
Bob Bell

1946 CJ2A

Ben Dover
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Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by Ben Dover » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:01 pm

your shoes may have soaked up some fluid or grease that keeps surfacing. Why not install 4 new wheel cylinders at the same time.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Bob Bell
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:01 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by Bob Bell » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:13 pm

Code: Select all

 by Ben Dover » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 am

your shoes may have soaked up some fluid or grease that keeps surfacing. Why not install 4 new wheel cylinders at the same time.
I have less than 15,000 miles on all the brake shoes and all the cylinders. At no time have the shoes become contaminated - all oil seals are doing their jobs very well. The shoes show no wear. I hate to just buy and replace stuff to see if that is the problem. I know I have a problematic passenger rear wheel cylinder that I have cleaned, hones and installed new rubbers just a few months ago. The fact that the other wheel sometimes grabs first thing after starting tells me that the rear passenger cylinder is still a problem.

Sadly I never go off road as I live in Oakland, California from where one has to drive a very long way to frolic in the mud, rocks and dirt. So there is no extraneous dirt / sand in the drums. I have the drums off at least once a month these days anyway, so I get to check what is in there very regularly.

I imagine (desperately hope!) that the new wheel cylinder will even out the problematic sticking, and then - again hopefully - the squeal will disappear. Should it not, I will then contemplate either matching the drums, or possibly buy new ones.

I drove 30 miles this morning - only one or two squeals. Go figure !!!!

Bob
Bob Bell

1946 CJ2A

Ben Dover
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Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by Ben Dover » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:46 am

Vintage WWII era Signal Corps Training films do have Jeeps and WC's that make squeaky stops. Forget Mash, etc..

What brand are your shoes, OEM Asbestos, aftermarket relined?
Take your drums and shoes to a brake shop, have the shoes arched to match the Drum.
Remember, there is a spec for drum inside diameter, have you looked it up?
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Bob Bell
G-Master Sergeant
G-Master Sergeant
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:01 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by Bob Bell » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:46 am

Code: Select all

I imagine (desperately hope!) that the new wheel cylinder will even out the problematic sticking, and then - again hopefully - the squeal will disappear. Should it not, I will then contemplate either [b]matching[/b] the drums, or possibly buy new ones.
I typed 'machining' ... I hate this auto correct!
Bob
Bob Bell

1946 CJ2A

fiveftsix
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Re: Very odd rear brake problem

Post by fiveftsix » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:49 am

Bob,
That was a very very long time ago that happened
And there was a nut on the shaft !!!
Admitting not fully wound on
It stripped the threads clean out of half or slightly more of the Nut once I`d found it !!!Had it not been for the want of a Fag !!!
I might not still be here !!
And only a Brit will understand that expression !!!!! LOL
But ok now you`ve explained your puller use it is not due to that
Geoff Bull

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