artificer and Luc Coesens?

Create a thread to track the progress of you MB/GPW restoration progress. Previously a General Discussion board.
bazza46
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by bazza46 » Wed May 02, 2018 2:52 pm

Luc has been kicked off mulktiple times, always coming back later, under a new avatar. Before I get going, I might add that he 'knows his stuff'' about jeeps
Now, I'm not one to engage in a 'flaming war' on these boards; I usually never reply to a nasty personal attack. I believe ignoring the attacker is best. But a while ago I was viciously attacked by Luc over one of my posts. I had personally had a problem in my jeep which I tracked to a particular fault.

I was ridiculed by Luc for this, he saying that it was not possible for such a thing to happen.
Unfortunately, I took the bait, and tried to defend my position, saying that I had actual, inconvertible proof that such a fault could, and did, happen to me- not a second hand account.
I was then personally attacked by Luc for several pages,and stupidly tried to defend my position, till I finally gave up and said to myself F... it!' I'll not argue any more.
Normally, I wouldn't 'Blow my own trumpet', but I feel I should here, as Luc denigrated me as being a dickhead who knew nothing.

I've owned, driven and worked on jeeps for 55 years now, and with a background in owner driver trucking (my dad was an owner driver trucker, and used us, when we were kids to help him repair his trucks since we were 8 years old (it was a one man operation). We rebuilt engines, gearboxes, diffs, you name it, from since I can remember and my hobby is working on cars. I was taught to weld by CIG when I was 14 years old, by the best professionals in the business.It was very hurtful to virtually be called an ignoramus who has no knowledge of motor vehicles.

I don't mind if someone disagrees with me on a topic, as long as they are civil, and puts logical explanations forward for their view, which I can then either challenge, or maybe concede with, but this personal, hurtful attacking is a big no-no, in my opinion.

This forum is intended to help those who want help with their jeep problems, and there are lots of people here who are very able to do that.
It should not be a place where people are constantly trying to 'one up 'their comrades on how much they know about jeeps. That's childish and unhelpful.

I've seen posters who've put up a post about their problem, watched a nasty fight ensue and finally left, without getting a useful answer, saying, in effect,"That's it, fellers. I'm out of here".

Still, I guess that's what happens in politics and business, too. Human nature (sigh!).

Bazza
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"..Bertrand Russell


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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by dinof » Wed May 02, 2018 3:04 pm

17thAirborne wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:45 pm
Here is my favorite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVTHL-siv7A
We think alike...the moment I saw the photo you posted of them I immediately thought of this scene! I love when they are shoveling the motor back in :lol:
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed May 02, 2018 4:44 pm

bazza....you are just lucky the other party wasn't the "other party" in this discussion!

Like I said, our cultural differences seem to define how we respond to others. What works between two Brits or two Aussies or two Italians or two Belgians or two Dutchmen may be ok but when the :discussions/arguments" get heated, in party may lose it. Here in the USA that is true for the different regions of the country.

My opinion, for the $.02 it is worth, is that if two guys clearly are disrupting things, then BOTH get a time out. Trying to judge the severity of some of those posts and then ban one based on "whose the worst" just doesn't cut it in my opinion....much easier for the moderators to just sit them BOTH down for a short spell. Guys who have a short fuse who are egged on by others shouldn't bear the brunt of the punishment...but that's just the way I see it.
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by gerrykan » Wed May 02, 2018 5:26 pm

17thAirborne wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:45 pm
Here is my favorite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVTHL-siv7A
Thanks for the laugh!

The boys were working for the British, so the folks that frequent this site should appreciate that they had an M-number on the hood/bonnet.
Roy

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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by Michael O. » Wed May 02, 2018 6:23 pm

I don’t see the point of kicking either of them...both are very knowledgeable. I got a kick of the bantering...was entertaining. Guys like Tom don’t post here anymore either. WE ARE LOOSING an indispensable knowledge base. We should be encouraging guys like Tom, Luc and artificer (his real name eludes me for the moment) to be active and participate here. Soon they’ll be just the few resident “experts” and then everyone else...the words of a select few will be gospel and the rest will be like the blind leading the blind.

It’s a real shame if this is true....a real shame!
Michael O’Connell

Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.

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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed May 02, 2018 6:51 pm

Michael O. wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 6:23 pm
I don’t see the point of kicking either of them...both are very knowledgeable. I got a kick of the bantering...was entertaining. Guys like Tom don’t post here anymore either. WE ARE LOOSING an indispensable knowledge base. We should be encouraging guys like Tom, Luc and artificer (his real name eludes me for the moment) to be active and participate here. Soon they’ll be just the few resident “experts” and then everyone else...the words of a select few will be gospel and the rest will be like the blind leading the blind.

It’s a real shame if this is true....a real shame!
Michael,
I emailed both of them privately in an effort to get them to try and see the good side of one another and to "bury the hatchet" so that the G could be a continued place of knowledge and disagreement with a factual basis, not disagreement with vitriol. I too see the benefit of what each had to offer, and there is a REAL gift in hearing two spirited people argue (in a platonic way) the merits of their position. I learn from reading such discussion, especially when afforded the opportunity to judge based on what they say and how they back it up with TM references, images of real engines etc.

When they responded to me, both of them were pretty steadfast in their view that the other was hateful and always saw fault in the other's posts with no opening for common ground. I decided that I was getting no where in my effort to create some brotherhood, so I chose to divest myself from the fruitless effort to mediate. I should have heeded my wife's favorite saying when contemplating getting involved in such matters, "Not my circus, not my monkeys!" I quit answering their emails as they tried to make me see how the other side was the problem in the relationship.

I agree, they should both be treated the same. Perhaps we need Dean Wormser to institute Double Secret Probation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tfK_3XK4CI
Oz

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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by artificer » Wed May 02, 2018 7:57 pm

always saw fault in the other's posts
Really?
Clear thinking & analysis by some on here would be helpful in revealing that when I make an initial contribution there ARE NO PERSONAL ATTACK REFERENCES whatsoever.
Now look what happens next, after my contributory post, time & again!

I don't email anyone, uninvited....I send PM's by choice & answer quite a few questions this way.
The offender's spam/bombarding/unread emails are directed straight to trash in this venue.

What I do see fault in is having my 57 years experience in this trade with initial ARMY training on WW2 Jeeps etc., having owned many personally restored WW2 Jeeps & most any other vehicle makes & equipment, continually degraded by a narcissist, with a hate streak.

A narcissist who did exactly the same to Bazza [& many others like Bruce W's valuable safety contribution recently] & as is done with nearly every post contributed to threads, HE thinks he is expert/interested in.

Unlike Bazza I gave as good as I got, but lately decided not to bother, I have better things to do with my time than get into this continual sh*t fight.

I like getting my hands dirty & that doesn't happen on a keyboard.

There is only way to win with this regular toxic narcissistic contributor, & that is not to play.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by 17thAirborne » Thu May 03, 2018 5:16 am

artificer wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 7:57 pm
always saw fault in the other's posts
Really?
Clear thinking & analysis by some on here would be helpful in revealing that when I make an initial contribution there ARE NO PERSONAL ATTACK REFERENCES whatsoever.
:roll: If you are going to quote me, don't cherry pick a few words to hold the comment out of context. I was referring to the emails I sent the both of you.

"When they responded to me, both of them were pretty steadfast in their view that the other was hateful and always saw fault in the other's posts with no opening for common ground."
Oz

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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu May 03, 2018 8:42 am

He just doesn't get it, does he?
Like a petulant child when two are caught quarreling....."He started it!"

So what? take the friggin; high road if you are so dammnned smart and respond with FACTS, not the kind of insults you regularily dish out to ANYONE who has a different method or approach and we can avoid this kind of crap where YOU get off scott free and Luc gets the shaft! His contributions and MV experience is lost because of that.

Again, a disagreement that leads to an argument and to insults on BOTH sides deserves EQUAL PUNISHMENT!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Michael O.
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by Michael O. » Thu May 03, 2018 8:52 am

Why is Luc banned then? This isn’t right.

Soon these boards will be full of back yard mechanics offering their expert advice while the real mechanic/machinist is banned and barred for sticking to what he believes. I actually like both the guys in question...both have always treated me well and have shared valuable information with me. It is too bad they don’t get along as they are both fantastic individuals.
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by sjalbert » Thu May 03, 2018 9:02 am

Michael O. wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 6:23 pm
I don’t see the point of kicking either of them...both are very knowledgeable. I got a kick of the bantering...was entertaining. Guys like Tom don’t post here anymore either. WE ARE LOOSING an indispensable knowledge base. We should be encouraging guys like Tom, Luc and artificer (his real name eludes me for the moment) to be active and participate here. Soon they’ll be just the few resident “experts” and then everyone else...the words of a select few will be gospel and the rest will be like the blind leading the blind.

It’s a real shame if this is true....a real shame!
The last I tried Tom was still replying to PM's.
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by Michael O. » Thu May 03, 2018 9:19 am

sjalbert wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 9:02 am

The last I tried Tom was still replying to PM's.
Yes, thankfully he’s very good at replying to PM’s but hasn’t anyone noticed that he does not post here much at all anymore? He’s been run off by a few individuals and the man himself.

I will say it another way...continue to kick or drive away all the knowledgeable guys and this site will be left with no one around here except for Joel G0pan being forced to respond to his own posts.
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by 17thAirborne » Thu May 03, 2018 10:22 am

Here is what I offer as a solution.

Both are reinstated if they agree to and immediately comply with 1,2 and 3 below..

1. Both apologize, publicly, on the forum to each other and the forum members in general. IN A HUMBLE MANNER.
2. Both agree, in their apology, to NEVER insult one another, or to NEVER insult anyone else and to ALWAYS voice a disagreement WITH a fact, such as a quote from a TM or accepted reference, images from one's own workshop, or a well laid out, logical response to why their method is better.
3. ANY violation of any of the above tenants WILL result in IMMEDIATE and PERMANENT removal from the forum because of all of the previous controversy and problems mentioned by so many members.

What say you all?
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by Fabrizio » Thu May 03, 2018 11:06 am

Both? You must mean Luc; as he is the only one to have been (re-re-re......) kicked out as far as I can see.
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Re: artificer and Luc Cousins?

Post by Michael O. » Thu May 03, 2018 11:11 am

I say you are being a very reasonable moderator Oz. Let’s see what John and Luc have to say. Again, I respect both these individuals.
Michael O’Connell

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