Restoration of GP 8546

Create a thread to track the progress of you MB/GPW restoration progress. Previously a General Discussion board.
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DannyP
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Sun May 01, 2016 3:26 pm

Mike, Thanks buddy. When the times comes you need help with GP8920 I'll be ready always happy to help. We haven't had any updates on GP8920 lately?

You lost me at accelerator pedal... Is that the one between the clutch and brake pedals? If I understand your suggestions correctly your two bobs are exactly what not to do. They are what you normally would do (and what I did), but apparently the Solex was invented by a Frenchman. It's the strangest carb I have tried. I read an article last night from the 60's or 70's about how an American could never start a Hotchkiss Jeep. Doing all the normal things we do with carbs means it will never start. Apparently it floods really easily. When starting you are never to touch the accelerator pedal or linkage. Just full choke till it starts. Run it like that until it acts like it has too much fuel about 1-2 minutes then push in choke halfway, and then only then are you allowed to touch the accelerator pedal. Anything else results in certain doom like I experienced yesterday. I found that info reading old posts here, as usual the info is here on G503 if you can find it. Armed with that knowledge I went out this morning followed those instructions and she fired right up. Doing what I, and you thought was proper I guess really wasn't. Now I know!

Your suggestion about checking the oil is a good one. I did keep feeling and smelling the oil looking for gas. I don't think it was leaking into the oil pan. I didn't smell like gas when I drained it all this afternoon. My fuel pump is toast. I was afraid of it causing problems Turns out I was right. It is pitted everywhere inside including the two surfaces that squeeze the diaphragm membrane. That's where it appears to be leaking. I think it is not sealing properly. Thought about using permatex gasket maker to try and seal it up, but I'm afraid that stuff would make its way into the carb causing more problems. Very strangely it doesn't seem to leak when it's pumping only when it sits. I left the fuel line hooked up last night and it was dripping pretty good. Didn't seem to be leaking while I was cranking it. Anyway I am going to look into a 6v electric fuel pump. Unless I find out it's ok to use the gasket sealer on it I don't know anything else that could be done. I hope Joe's Motor Pool gets those pumps done soon. I really need it.

It ran today for about 15 seconds before I killed it. Oil pump isn't priming. Don't know why. I have been reading about it online and some suggestions have came up. Going to work through all those and try again later this week. It's a new oil pump in there. Should have worked. Going to inject oil everywhere before I try again. I read some that it needs to run a minute or so before the oil pressure builds up for the first time, but it makes me nervous. I did squirt oil in the cylinders and the line that goes into the back of the block before I tried to start it. Going to find some way to pump oil into the filter and everywhere else before I try again. Pulling the bolt with the spring and ball on the front of the block and squirting oil in there too. Seems that this is a fairly common problem with 9N tractor engines. even read to pull that bolt and detent off the front and squirt 90wt gear oil into it to help with the priming. If it won't get pressure next time then I will start to be worried. For now I pulled the drain plug. I will let it sit until tomorrow afternoon then I am going to clean that opening, and hopefully figure out what it is leaking. Bought some thicker gasket making cork today too. I don't want it leaking as much as it is. I'll figure something out.

Here is a video of it running. It is rough, but better than not starting! Don't know if this video link to photobucket will work.

http://vid1194.photobucket.com/albums/a ... 37CBB0.mp4
Danny
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My restoration thread viewtopic.php?f=144&t=241570


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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Sun May 01, 2016 3:30 pm

BTW... Does anyone know of an 6v electric fuel pump that I could try? I did a quick google earlier and what I came up with gave 8-10psi and I only need 1.5-2. If there is something that you have used and works I would love to know. The fuel pump is the nail in my coffin so to speak.
Danny
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by rjbeamer » Sun May 01, 2016 4:28 pm

Danny look up on line Airtex #8902. 6 volt, 2.5-4 psi

Roger

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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Sun May 01, 2016 5:22 pm

Thanks Roger. I wonder if the extra couple psi will make a difference? I certainly don't need to cause any new problems. I have enough as it is! I'd really like to make the Findlay MVPA show though. Three weeks! Gonna be close
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by rjbeamer » Sun May 01, 2016 6:06 pm

Danny you are going to be hard pressed to find one under 4 psi on the top end in my opinion. Not sure how finicky the Solex carb's are. Someone with more knowledge than I on them hopefully will chime in. They do make small pressure regulators that would allow you lower the pressure.

Roger

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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by Michael C » Tue May 03, 2016 10:09 am

Thanks, Dan ... I have you on the top of my GP consultants list for the GP8920 build!

I used a 6volt electric fuel pump on the Ford F15 I restored (V8, 239 ci, 95hp side valve), and the pressure was way too high for the carbie to handle (flooded) so I added the pressure reducer in the line. It was a dial arrangement, so you could reduce the fuel flow/pressure incrementally until you found the right balance. The pump was an Autopulse, and they were still being made to the exact pattern for the F15 in the 1990s. The unit came with the pressure reducer, if I remember correctly, but it is a long time ago now - it may have been a purchase option? I used the pump mainly for initial priming to start, then when driving, only when the fuel system started to vapour lock (a common problem with semi-forward control trucks powered with SV V8s) - the electric pump overcame the vapour lock problem instantly, then I'd shut it down again. The F15 dash panel had a switch position for the Autopulse, as they were factory-fitted for the Indian Army contracts.

I assume such devices are still available, but at least you now know they do/did exist!

Happy hunting....

Mike

GP8920

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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Tue May 03, 2016 7:06 pm

Thanks Mike! I really need to figure out a way to bypass that pump until I can get another. It is certainly ruining my fun. I am reluctant to spend $200 or so on an electric pump, reducer and hoses fittings etc.. I think the pump from Joe's Motor Pool will be done soon. Just really frustrates me I can't get it to work well enough to get me by for a couple weeks. I was pretty mad at it today. I should have just walked away. For once I would love the GP to let me win instead of making me fight every little thing to death. It will get there someday. I'm just ready for a win. You need to add Rory to your list of consultants too. He sure has helped me a lot. I just thought a way I can bypass the pump and hopefully fill the float chamber with the fittings I have now.

Today my new gasket for the oil pan drain was dry. I made a thicker one, and put a little Permatex ultra-black on it. No oil is leaking from the drain plug now. That's good. I injected a whole quart of oil through the filter into the engine. Hoping that would help prime it. Also removed the bypass check valve and bolt from the front of the block and injected oil into there too. Hoping that would prime the pump. Here is what I came up with to do that. It worked!

Image

After all that I was able to get the engine running for about another 20 seconds before I think it ran out of gas. Insert all the curse words fuel pump. Hate that pump. Still had zero movement on the oil pressure gauge. Texted Rory and asked if he could think of anything. He had a good idea. I knew when I touched a jumper from the negative battery post to the oil pressure sender that the needle on the gauge would rise. He asked if there was continuity from the positive battery terminal to the housing of the sender. There was not. Maybe since the oil filter, brass T, and sender are not grounded that is keeping the gauge from working. Not completing the circuit? I sanded the inside of the filter bracket, and the outside of the filter now it is grounded. Of course I couldn't get the Jeep started long enough to see if that was it because of the (insert all the curse words) fuel pump. That was about 9:30 tonight so I gave up for the day. Hopefully I will have better luck tomorrow for once.

Also started on the seat wood today. That didn't go all that great either. Rory sent me the seat brackets and an original wood seat base to borrow until I get my own. The wood seat bottom is awesome. Has moss for extra padding! I will at least show me where to drill the holes for the fuel filler and sending unit. The wood has some original T nuts in it also which are neat to see. What I bought is really close to the original. Here it is in all it's glory.

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Love the moss. Looks like it's fresh from the woods. I didn't do a great job on my first try at the wood. I need to look at some more pictures. I didn't think the wood would bump into the thick rolled edge that goes around the seat. Not sure if I need to do a little relief cut so it will pass over like in this photo. or if I just need to make the seat 1/2" or so narrower. Here is what I made up for the first try.

Image

That was it for today. Tomorrow is going to be better
Danny
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Thu May 05, 2016 6:23 pm

Yesterday wasn't better as I had hoped. Fuel fitting fiasco reached a whole new level of frustration. I bypassed the pump as I had planned. Then realized that I was sold a fitting for the carb that wouldn't seal either. It was leaking going into the Solex elbow just with the pressure of gravity feeding into it. After seeing that I shut the barn door and gave up yesterday. I was pretty close to lifting the GP up with the Bobcat and pushing it into the pond. Had to walk away. I just don't understand how people sell these carbs for Jeeps and don't have a fitting that will screw into it without leaking. Nobody seems to know what fits without leaking. Tried every person I knew to call. Drove around with the elbow some today. Nothing to be found. I stopped by a shop that builds pulling trucks and tractors. I know a guy that works there. He dug through a big box of fittings and came up with a brass one that we thought might seal It didn't either, but he gave me some blue tape that is gas proof. I ended up using it. It was too wide, and I wanted to leave a couple threads to hopefully be sure that tape doesn't end up in the carb. So as you can see there is excess blue tape around the bottom. I'm just going to leave it for now. Brad says he found something else that might work he is sending me. I don't have very high hopes for it at this point though. I'm guessing it takes a weird fitting that's specific to the carb. Here is what I ended up with. It's not leaking yet. Tomorrow I am going to inject some more oil and see if I can start it again. Hope grounding the sender worked. Really don't want to replace the oil pump again right now.

Image

After feeling like I've done nothing but be kicked in the twig n berries with the GP lately I decided to do something that I knew I could accomplish today. Made the seat wood, and bolted in the seat tonight. Turned out pretty good. Still needs some adjustment. The holes in the repro seat and brackets don't line up perfectly. Not a big deal though. Maybe half hour with a drill and file it will be fine. Figured out why I was having such trouble cutting the wood. The seat isn't square. There is a 1/8" thick piece of angle iron bent into a U to form the front of the seat. It's a little off. I made a couple templates with some poster board and it finally all came together. The T nuts I bought at the hardware store worked great too. They are almost exactly like the originals from Rory's seat. After seeing his I now know what to order to be as close to 100% as I can get 75 years after it was made. I didn't pay attention and I need more. I only bought 10 need 15 per seat. I'll just order 30 correct ones. FOr now some of the spots can be empty.

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Here it is with the W shaped bracket Rory let me borrow. Still need to drill the hole for the center of the W.

Image

Was surprised at the leg room when I sat in it. Rory says I need to put some rubber blocks under the W where it touches the floor.

Image

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Tomorrow I am going to make the other piece for the drivers side. Rory let me borrow those brackets too. Since I know he reads this, and laughs at all my suffering every night.... Thanks for letting me borrow them. Will be nice to actually sit in it for the first time! Hopefully I will get it started and have oil pressure too.
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by Rory Grenier » Thu May 05, 2016 7:38 pm

:lol:
Keep up the great work. It is looking great. I do enjoy reading this, I am not laughing, I am enjoying my beer with tears running down my face.
Rory
:D

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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Fri May 06, 2016 11:37 am

It's ok to laugh Rory. I imagine reading this is a lot like staring at a car accident wondering how someone could be so stupid. I'm learning though. It will run someday, but maybe not til after I'm dead and it goes to the next owner!

I went out this morning and tried it again. Unfortunately the fuel fitting is leaking again even with that tape. Really disappointing. It ran better today though. Had it going twice. If I keep pumping the bulb it seems to run well. It dies if I don't pump the bulb about every ten seconds. I bet there is air getting in through that fitting causing it not to siphon the gas, and making it run out. Everytime I pump the bulb some gas comes out of that fitting. Jay and the guys at Joe's Motor Pool are sending me a new elbow and fitting to test. I wonder if screwing in the incorrect steel fitting I got from Brad stretched out the threads. Hopefully the new pieces will work. More reason to buy the repro Holley from Joe's Motor Pool once they are available. The Solex is worthless if nobody has a fitting for it that doesn't leak.

Anyway... I ran it about thirty seconds at first. Then I pulled the oil line off the T fitting on top of the oil filter. Oil was coming out of the line which is good. Thinking that it probably was pumping I started it up again. Had it running a couple minutes. It sounds a lot better than it did last week. Keeps dying when I forget to pump the bulb, but starts right up after I do pump it. Was trying to run it to find out if it just needed more time for the gauge to show pressure. Still nothing showing on the gauge after a couple minutes I killed it and pulled that line off again. Oil was leaking from the line and the T fitting more than before. I think it is a wiring problem that is causing it not to show pressure. I noticed that the temp gauge went down once it started warming up. I think there is something backwards on my cluster. That's my hope at least. I don't see how that oil would be up in that line if it wasn't pumping it. It was almost a week ago that I squirted oil through there. I would think it would have drained back into the block after that long. The oil wasn't hot though that leaked out of the line, but I don't know if two or three minutes of running is enough time to heat 5 quarts of oil enough that it would feel hot to the touch. Tomorrow I am going to pick up a oil pressure testing kit screw that into where the sender goes. That should tell me for sure what is going on. I looked locally for one today without luck. I know where to get one, but it's about an hour and a half round trip. Didn't have time for that today. We will see what happens tomorrow. I won't have much time this weekend out there being mother's day though.
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Sat May 07, 2016 3:46 pm

Some good news today I think. Managed to get about 10 minutes to mess with the GP. I put on my new oil pressure tester and it showed about 20psi at idle through a 66" hose with a leaky fitting. I am now sure that I just have the gauge wired wrong. Good news for once. I'm going to call the oil pump worry over, and move onto other things like the wiring gremlins plus mounting the hood and windshield.

Tried to get a picture or video of it showing the pressure. But it's hard to hold the camera when you have to constantly gently squeeze the priming bulb while holding a shop towel on the fitting to keep gas from leaking into the generator. Hopefully one of the fittings on the way will solve the gas leak. I think I am just going to stop worrying about the engine until I can get the fuel pump from Joe's Motor Pool. I think I'm convinced that it is good enough that I won't have to pull it or anything awful like that. Doesn't seem to be much point messing with the engine when I don't have a reliable way to get fuel into the carb.

Here is a pic of my new tester. It was the only one I could find for sale anywhere around here. Harbor Freight piece of junk. 66" hose and there was oil leaking from the fitting that was loctited on or some stuff like that.

Image
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Mon May 09, 2016 3:34 pm

Today was a mixed bag of problems. Luckily I am getting so used to them now that I don't seem to care! Put the rubber welting on the cowl for the rear of the hood. It fit really well. The kit I got from Brad came with two washers along with the 12 little "wood" screws that hold it down. I have no idea where the washers go. Sent him an email to find out. After I got that on I tried to bolt on the hood. It's a no go. Was about an inch crooked. One of the hood hinges was bolted on when I got it. The other had a really weird bend in it. Jimmy riveted the one side on that was bolted. The other side he left alone. I tried to bend it straight again, but all I managed was cracking the paint on the hood. I drilled the rivets out and straightened it fits somewhat better now. Should have been fixed before he primered it though. Hood needs repainted now anyway figured I would fix it right. Rory had a good idea about loosening the body bolts and trying to shift the body a little to close the probably 1/4" offset problem that I am having getting it straight now that I fixed that hinge. I'll try that later this week. It makes sense. Another problem I had was that Jimmy had replaced the D shaped nuts that the hood bolts onto the firewall. When he made the new gussets with those D shaped nuts and welded them in the holes weren't lined up. The skin of the firewall covered about a third of the hole through the D nut on two, half of the hole on another and the fourth one was ok. So I had to use a Dremel to open up the skin of the firewall so you could get a bolt in there. That took me most of the afternoon to fix. Those D nuts were welded in at a weird upward angle too it's going to be a pain to bolt them in, but it will work out. I'm going to try Rory's idea before I drill out the good hinge. Hopefully that will work.

Got a shipment in from Jay's WWII Jeeps and Joe's Motor Pool today. Have a new elbow fitting for my leaky Solex to try. Also got a new fitting from Brad Gates to try. If I'm lucky one will work. Jay also sent me the King Bee reflectors, and the GP fuel tank guard. Both are very nice. The fuel tank guard holes line up perfectly with the original holes on my original machine gun hump. I think once I get their fuel tank it will fit great. The King Bee Reflectors are great too. Here is a picture

Image

Here are three reflectors. There is an original glass King Bee, glass made by Darcy Miller, and the Joe's Motor Pool plastiglass I think they called it. It's really hard to tell them apart. In the picture I had seen online I thought the ones from Joe's Motor Pool looked darker or maybe less shiny. Must have been a bad picture. I think you would be hard pressed to tell any of them apart looking from a foot away. The ones made by Joe's Motor Pool say King Bee Hy Power. Darcy's just says King Bee with no Hy Power. And my original just says King Be because it looks like whomever I bought it from over polished it trying to fix some of the scratches. Not sure if they should say Hy Power for sure or not. I would guess that both were used. On the back of them there are these little balls that make it kind of look like a honeycomb. I would say that the balls are more the correct size on the ones made by Joe's Motor Pool. The spacing is a little more spread out on the ones I got from Darcy Miller, or maybe the balls are smaller. Kind of a nitpicky comparison though. They all look great. They also all fit into the King Bee stamped bezels that came with the set I got from Jay and Joe's Motor Pool. Can you see which is which?

Image
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Wed May 11, 2016 4:44 pm

Getting closer with my hood. Not there yet though. It's still a bit off. They body wants to shift like Rory said. Just can't get it to stay in place. Also loosened the bolts on the grill. Figured out the one hood hinge that was re riveted on was put on backwards. That's why the holes wouldn't line up with the cowl, and it didn't want to fit in the slot they pass through into the cowl. Drilled that out. It will line up eventually or I will just leave the hood off and call it a field mod!

Got frustrated with that then decided to test the new Solex elbow fitting Jay Hinton and Joe's Motor Pool sent me. Brad also sent me a new fitting to try. It finally doesn't leak gas from the fitting, but I did have to use a liberal amount of thread tape to get it to seal up. Still leaked without the tape. I think after trying a dozen or so times to get my original Solex elbow to seal I wore out the threads. I started off using the steel fittings Brad had recommended, and I think they kind of cut their own threads into the brass elbow so to speak. None of the fittings I have bought or received from Brad are really the correct thing. Still don't understand how nobody seems to know what is designed to fit in there. For now it's nice to not have to hold a rag on that fitting when I'm test running it even if the blue tape does look awful. Will be nice when I can get fuel to it without pumping the bulb on the boat tank too. Jay really saved my bacon with the elbow.

Next question is will I be able to find the correct fitting that doesn't require tape/sealer before I can buy the repro Holley 847D from Joe's Motor Pool? I really don't like the idea of teflon tape and leaky fittings. They posted this pic on Facebook the other day. It's really exciting to see parts like this being made. I know I wouldn't be able to afford an original. This isn't available yet, and they don't know pricing as far as I know. Still thought it would be fun for you to see. They say it will have the correct markings on it too when it's ready around convention time. We will see which I can get first. Either way it's cool to see rare GP parts like this being reproduced.

Image

Here is a video of mine running again. Sounds a lot nicer now that I am getting the Solex figured out. Also having Rory's air filter on there really quieted down the sucking noise of the carb. Seems to be extremely sensitive to changes in the choke. After it warmed up a little I was able to rev it up some for the first time. I had it running about five minutes today messing with the idle screw and choke. When it dies it fires right back up. Haven't had any more flooding problems, and it seems to sound a lot nicer than it did last week. That made me happy I needed a break from fighting the hood. I'll keep at it, but here was the victory for today.

http://vid1194.photobucket.com/albums/a ... unning.mp4

Don't know how to imbed the video without you having to click the link? Anybody know?
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by d42jeep » Thu May 19, 2016 2:24 am

Danny,
It was good to see it running. You are doing great work. :!: I thought you might like to see a couple pictures of Jay's GP that I took at Tower Park. I'm sure that yours will be running around soon.
-Don
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Re: Restoration of GP 8546

Post by DannyP » Thu May 19, 2016 4:50 pm

Don, Thanks for the pictures and the kind words. Hopefully it will be running around soon! Just a couple more parts and I will be terrorizing the neighborhood across the street.

I haven't given up. No updates lately. I think I said this before, but I am leaving for Europe next Monday to meet up with the guys from Joe's Motor Pool and drive a GP to the beaches of Normandy on D-Day. A lot of housework I need to get done before I go. Haven't had much time for the barn. I do hope to get at least one afternoon out there next week. I was talking to Lindsay Clark another GP owner that also has his own body shop. He suggested putting a couple washers behind one hood hinge to close the remaining 1/4" or so in my hood gap. I think that sounds like a great idea. Considering Lindsay has restored numerous GP's his experienced advice is helpful.
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